bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: God not the author of confusion  (Read 3188 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Roy Martin

  • Guest
God not the author of confusion
« on: August 06, 2009, 10:42:57 AM »

 Hello everyone.
   We know that God is not the author of confusion but there are times that I get all tangled up when I'm reading the bible and I see statements like, because you refused to listen: because you didn't hear my voice; because you chose this or that; and then God punishes them. God also made that statement to Satan in the Garden and then cursed him.
  No hell was, and is easy to understand and believe. No free will, also easy, but when it comes to putting free will and choices together, and reading the bible with all the statements about choices and being held accountable, well it gets confusing, and I will say to myself that maybe this is just one of those things that God doesn't want me to know, but then there are all of you that understand it completely. I look forward to understanding it as I'm sure I will. I know this has to be seen spiritually and that I'm reading it carnally as all of those in the church buildings.
  Its like I have it partially, and maybe think I understand it at times.
Does God want us to think we are in charge of our choices? I just don't get it. I get confused just trying to ask the right question about it.
  I'm sure this topic has been covered hundreds of times and I have read a few, but I still don't have it but darn it; I want to have it. Its not that I have doubt. I just want to understand it completely, and have it stick.

Peace
Roy
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 10:53:54 AM by Roy Martin »
Logged

Roy Martin

  • Guest
Re: God not the author of confusion
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 11:04:32 AM »

 Do I have this right?
  God is blinding me. Satan is confusing me.
I still don't think I'm explaining myself. I think I can count on someone to help me though.

Roy
Logged

Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: God not the author of confusion
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 11:30:32 AM »

Roy,hello.

 I do not quite get the gist of your question,but maybe this email to Ray could be of some help.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2444.0.html


In Part C of "The Myth of Free Will" did you mean to say, "Just how does God  deceive mankind into thinking that their thoughts and choices free and uncaused?"
 
I thought you were proving that Satan is the deceiver, not God.  I hope this was an error.  I cannot conceive of God being a deceiver.
 
Betty
 

Dear Betty:
I really hate to answer questions such as this, because one is d......ed  if he does and d.......ed if he doesn't tell the truth.
 
God uses messengers and His Own circumcstances to bring about deceit.  Yes, the serpent "deceived" Eve, as we are clearly told that in the Scriptures.  However, Who created the serpent? God.  Who gave him access to the Garden?  God.  Who commissioned him to deceive Eve?  God.  Who created Eve in such  way that she "thought" she had freedom of the will?  God.  Who commissioned "lying spirits" on several occasions to "deceive" the enemy?  God.  Who is it that send "strong DELUSION"?  "Even him, whose comingis after theworkings of Satan with all power and sings and LYING [deceiving] wonders....And for THIS cause G-O-D  SHALL SEND THEM strong delusion, that they should believe a lie" (ii tHES. 2:9 & 11).
 
And did not our Own Lord make the two disciples traveling to Emmaus think that He was going to continue walking on down the road when they wanted to turn in for the night, when in reality Jesus had not such intention, but wanted them to INSIST that He go with them (Luke 24:28). Etc.
 
But please don't tell people that "Ray said that GOD IS A DECEIVER," unless you explain it in the context in which I have explained it to you.  Just for you own comfort of faith, when God did deceive or cause to be deceived in the Scriptures, HE TELLS US!
 
God be with you,
Ray





Peace...Mark
Logged

lauriellen

  • Guest
Re: God not the author of confusion
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 11:37:18 AM »

Hi Roy,
I understand your confusion, and being that i am very new here, am not sure i am the one to answer your question....but just thought i would offer a little bit of the understanding that God has given me.
When my son died in a car accident, i was actually angry with him....i believed that his accident was brought on by the way HE chose to live and the friends he chose(which in some aspects it was).  But as God has given me understanding to see, NO choice that we make is out of Gods will for our life.  So, my son made his choices WILLINGLY, but the choices were a DIRECT result of circumstances and influences that GOD PUT IN PLACE.  His life, DEATH and choices were ALL Gods will, directly in line with Gods plan  for his life.  God IS RESPONSIBLE for my sons death, BUT! my son is also ACCOUNTABLE, BECAUSE HE WAS A WILLING participant!  That is were the punishment aspect is justified i believe.
God is causing the choices we make, but in our HEART we are willing, and that is the sin.
hope this helps a little.
laurellen
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: God not the author of confusion
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 12:02:08 PM »


Hi Roy,

The way that I look at it, we know that God is soverign and He is ultimately in control.  The thing is He wants us to have this experience of life, so that we learn and gain all of this knowledge of good and evil from this experience and that's why He puts us here and has created this world so we can experience this life.  He gives us choices to make, and these are real choices that He put out there that we will actually choose from.  Even though He knows what our decision will be, we still have to go through the motions and make that choice ourself.  It's like He is teaching us about what life and what good and bad, is by our actually experiencing it.  We do it; we see something, we think about it, we decide what to do and we make the choice.  Even though God is really in control of everything, He makes it so we really have to make the choice.  We were the one that actually carried out the deed, so we are accountable.

I will try to give an example of this.  Say my little dog is doing something that I don't approve of, like stealing food off of the coffee table and he's smart so he only does it when I'm not looking.  So I set up the situation, I put something on the coffee table that he would like and I pretend to leave the room and when he goes to get it (which I knew he would do) I come back and I scold him.  Even though I set up the situation for him to do it, he was the one that actually did it and was in trouble (accountable) for doing it.  Simply analogy, but maybe it will help  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Logged

Roy Martin

  • Guest
Re: God not the author of confusion
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 12:20:03 PM »

Thanks for the answers. Its funny Kat that your analogy makes a lot of sense. I've been going round and round with that type of analogy for some time now but just couldn't quite complete the circle.
 I'm thinking for now that I have it. I just hope it sticks.

Peace
Roy
Logged

chuckt

  • Guest
Re: God not the author of confusion
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2009, 12:22:29 PM »

 
Quote
Hello everyone.
   We know that God is not the author of confusion

greetings everyone!

God is in fact the author, starting at the tower of babel until this day it remains, confusion by mixing.

now God is NOT for turbulence in the churches.

the scripture is always qouted as God is not the author of confusion, but its talking about IN THE CHURCH, God doesnt want turbulence, hooperin and hollerin and confusion, things done in an orderly fashion is what he wants.

1Cr 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.  

confusion 2, tumult 2, commotion 1

no busy bodies either...  :P :-*



God bless
chuckt
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 12:25:01 PM by chuckt »
Logged

Roy Martin

  • Guest
Re: God not the author of confusion
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2009, 12:26:17 PM »

Good point Chuckt, very good indeed; I think!.                                                                                    It makes me feel like I just put another silver bullet in my gun.

Roy
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 12:59:02 PM by Roy Martin »
Logged

chuckt

  • Guest
Re: God not the author of confusion
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2009, 12:48:09 PM »

Good point Chuckt, very good indeed; I think. It makes me feel like I just put another silver bullet in my gun.

Roy


ah roy , you are ok man.

i thank God i was shown this about babel, once i admitted it, i was able to start being purged of it.

example would be learning about the word hell and how people mix the meanings not knowing gehenna and hades are not the same thing, yet they make them the same thing, sowing confusion by mixing.

God bless
chuckt
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 12:58:51 PM by chuckt »
Logged

9440geoff

  • Guest
Re: God not the author of confusion
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2009, 02:15:04 PM »

Kat, thanks for your analogy. I have a dog like that too. Trouble is he never learns, so maybe I'm a bit too soft on him. Thank God our Father knows exactly how much chastisement we need in order to change!
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: God not the author of confusion
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2009, 05:07:20 PM »

Hey Chuckt!

Great to see you back and posting, you have been missed Brother.

Peace,

Joe
Logged

daywalker

  • Guest
Re: God not the author of confusion
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2009, 05:36:10 PM »


Hello Roy,

We have had it drilled into our heads all our lives that God gave us a list of commandments, but we being so 'free-willed' [and evil] continue to break them all the time, and each time we do God gets ticked off at us. But this is not at all what the Scriptures teach! God doesn't get 'angry' each time we sin... He already knew we would sin long before we did so.. each time.. every time.. So it's not like God says, 'Gosh dangit, you screwed up again! What's wrong with you?'....

Bottom Line: This is ALL for US, and for OUR understanding, and for OUR correction, to make US holy. God chastens us NOT because we are these stupid evil creatures, but because through His Chastening.. WE BECOME MORE LIKE HIM.

From our perspective, God is punishing us for being bad; but from God's perspective, He is teaching us HOW TO OBEY.


Hope this helps.

- Daywalker  8)
Logged

larissa4676

  • Guest
Re: God not the author of confusion
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2009, 01:31:55 AM »

Teaching us to obey. I like that Daywalker.

Larissa
Logged

Roy Martin

  • Guest
Re: God not the author of confusion
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2009, 11:57:36 AM »

Daywalker.
   Yes it does help.Thank you.

To put any puzzle together we have to lay the pieces out on the table and then one by one it starts to become a picture.

Roy
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.068 seconds with 24 queries.