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Author Topic: Screwing up the creation  (Read 2542 times)

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hillsbororiver

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Screwing up the creation
« on: June 11, 2006, 11:53:06 AM »

The following is taken from the very first part of LOF Part II, I remember it wasn't too long ago that this business of Adam's screw up or was it God's screw up would anger me to no end, even inspiring hatred toward our Lord.

When I would ponder the idea that one idiot such as Adam (or two idiots when you include Eve) could make life so miserable for millions, billions of people through the generations, why didn't we (as individuals) get our own chance to "keep" Edon, why must I suffer all this stuff because my stupid ancestor(s) flunked a test? Why were all the marbles in Adam and Eve's hands? I sure would have liked a taste of Edon, this present world is a joke. That was my train of thought, to me it was like (in a microscopic way) my grandfather flunking his driving test so therefore I will never be allowed to get a driver's license.


On the other hand I would think that God messed up the big creation experiment and here we were taking all the flak for it, must be nice, screw something up, blame and punish everyone else and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Talk about (my) confused logic!


Jer 18:4  And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel,as seemed good to the potter to make it.


Rom 8:20  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

I was ignorant of or blind to the above verses and many like them until I read this, and other articles;  


The Lake of Fire - PART II

THE REAL ORIGIN OF SIN

I heard a world-famous televangelist say in his sermon that it was never God’s intention that Adam and Eve disobey His command and sin by eating of the forbidden tree. Most Christians would agree. They think God did not want Adam to sin; and Adam did not need to sin. If Adam had not sinned, we would all be living in a giant Garden of Eden to this very day. We would be in perfect health, there would be no sorrow, we would have pleasure twenty-four hours a day, we would never die, we would be happy and God too would be happy.

If Adam had shown just a little restraint the world wouldn’t be in the giant mess it is in today. O really? Well, why then didn’t Adam exercise restraint. What went wrong? Did the first humans malfunction? Was there a flaw in their original design. God was the Designer; is God the blame? Not according to Christendom. Is He at least responsible? Not according to Christendom. But why not?

Now listen carefully. Here is wisdom beyond its years. When a scientist creates an experiment or machine that malfunctions, is he responsible for the malfunction? Yes. Does he hold the experiment or machine responsible? No. Does he hold God responsible? No. Okay.

Now then, according to Christendom, when God creates an experiment or machine that malfunctions, is He responsible for the malfunction? No. Does He hold the experiment or machine responsible? Yes. Does He hold man responsible? Yes. See the wisdom?

I have just shown you one reason why God calls the WISDOM of this world, STUPIDITY!

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness [Greek: stupidity] with God. For it is written, He takes the wise in their own craftiness" (I Cor. 3:19).

First, Christendom assumes that God’s creation of humans malfunctioned -- they did NOT!

Second, they assume that God is not responsible and does not take responsibility -- He DOES!

One unscriptural assumption added to another unscriptural assumption does not equal a Bible Truth!

I want to thank Chrissie for taking the time to index the entire "Lake of Fire" series, no small feat, it sure makes perusing and looking things up a whole lot easier, great job!

Joe
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shibboleth

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Screwing up the creation
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2006, 12:37:31 PM »

Genesis has always been my favorite book in the Bible. One of the reasons it's my favorite is because I knew if I could understand the Adam and Eve fiasco, I would have unlocked the true story about their sin. I asked preachers and friends questions about the  fall of man, which they didn't seem able to answer.
1. If Adam and Eve had a child before they sinned, would that child be sinless?
2. If their first child is sinless, and the 2nd child is sinful, then what happens to the human race?
3. If Adam and Eve fall off a cliff will they die? Or, since they were sinless before the fall, would they just get up and go on as if nothing happened?
4. There are scriptures that seem to hold people accountable for anothers trespass. I will look for them later. But there are scriptures that say a son isn't responsible for the sins of the Father. So is it only national sins the people are accountable for? In warfare God told the Israelites to kill every man, woman, child and even the beasts of burden. So, it seems that it was permissible to kill innocent people in war.

I have been thinking about some of my bad attitudes towards people and how I used to think I was so glad they were going to hell. But, when God showed me my own hell and how I needed that ugly doctrine burned out of me, I know that noone "deserves" to go to such a place. I can't imagine anyone bowing the knee to God and calling him Lord in one second, and the next hating and cursing Him in eternal torment.
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Daniel

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Screwing up the creation
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2006, 02:48:22 PM »

shibboleth writes
Quote
1. If Adam and Eve had a child before they sinned, would that child be sinless?


Heres a verse that might clear that up, not sure if this was what you were asking. Good question.

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.[/u]

Peace

Daniel

edited, I screwed up the quote
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shibboleth

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Screwing up the creation
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2006, 11:49:01 AM »

Hi Daniel,
 The churches teach that Adam and Eve were sinless, perfect and in the very image of God when they were created. So my question about children born to Adam and Eve has to do with that perspective. If Adam and Eve had children before they sinned, all of mankind would have lievd in perfect bliss on earth. There would be no death, rape, murder, greed, etc.

This is the doctrine of original sin. Tertullian taught that sin is a physical taint that is propagated from the parent to the child through procreation.

Unconscious infants dying without baptism are damned by virtue of their inherited guilt. Augustine
The nature and essence of man is, from his birth, an evil tree and a child of wrath. Martin Luther
Every child dying unbaptized are lost. Martin Luther
Original sin is the hereditary depravity and corruption of our nature... which first makes us subject to the wrath of God, and then produces in us works which the scriptures call works of the flesh. Calvin
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Daniel

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Screwing up the creation
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2006, 06:00:22 PM »

Sorry shibboleth,

I did not realize there was a sub angle to your thought. I try to take something straight on. Unless trying to understand someone elses angle.

I don't pay much attention to the errors of men out there. Doing that would then reduce me to having nothing but their errors as the center of my conversations. No fun to me. I just let bury themselves in their own opinions. Jesus raises the dead, they can know nothing until he does.

Just blow it off, dont let it get to you. They haven't the last word on anything only He does, praise God.

Peace

Daniel
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knuckle

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Screwing up the creation
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2006, 04:02:48 PM »

hi all-------

   shibboleth wrote--------I have been thinking about some of my bad attitudes towards people and how I used to think I was so glad they were going to hell---- that love your enemies part is hard,probably the most difficult thing for me to get past.I can smile and act like every things good but down deep I can still feel the anger.I often wonder if the idea of a torturous hell doesn't allow some folks to keep from facing those emotions and thier own inability to forgive others.Instead they condem others to eternal torment in thier own hearts but pass the buck on to God so they don't feel guilty.

  much love--------knuckle
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SandyFla

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Screwing up the creation
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2006, 02:37:00 PM »

Quote from: shibboleth
Hi Daniel,
 The churches teach that Adam and Eve were sinless, perfect and in the very image of God when they were created. So my question about children born to Adam and Eve has to do with that perspective. If Adam and Eve had children before they sinned, all of mankind would have lievd in perfect bliss on earth. There would be no death, rape, murder, greed, etc.


Preachers and church people believe that Christ's death on the cross one time was sufficient for each person who "inherited" Adam's sin.

Try asking them if they think the entire human race would have remained sinless had Adam and Eve not sinned. Answer: we wouldn't have. I mean, someone somewhere somehow along the way would have "messed it up." Then how would God save anyone? Would Jesus have to die as many times as there are people to be saved?

Next time that topic comes up with one of my Christian friends, I will ask them. It will be interested to see how they squirm out of that one!  :wink:

Sandy
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