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Why be reborn if all men are saved anyway?

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JMsubordinate:
I have learned a lot from Ray, however I stumble at the bit where Jesus says that we must be reborn(born of the Spirit. ) in order to be saved...all biblical versus quoted by Ray clearly state that ALL men will be saved.... why then do we have to be reborn... someone please explain.
Thank you
Hans

Linny:
Hi Hans,

You will undoubtedly get some great answers to your question full of great Scripture. I just wanted to say this.
I have found during the time I have been relearning and reevaluating all I was taught incorrectly, that people, particularly church folk, look at Scripture so literally -and it all must fit into our very short time frame while we are here.
Add freewill to that and it is all up to us.

They take the teachings and think it all has to be squeezed into our 72+- years on earth. Then they have invented loopholes for all those that don't or can't fit into their doctrines.

Now we know that the Bible is a parable and that what it speaks of in physical must manifest itself in the Spiritual.

So for me, reborn is what we will all be once we are purified and made perfect by God.

Joh 3:3  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In this Scripture, born again isn't one definition but 2. Born and again are separate.
It could also be written this way...
born from above
I like that!


Blessings, Lin

mharrell08:

--- Quote from: JMsubordinate on August 21, 2009, 03:56:40 PM ---I have learned a lot from Ray, however I stumble at the bit where Jesus says that we must be reborn(born of the Spirit. ) in order to be saved...all biblical versus quoted by Ray clearly state that ALL men will be saved.... why then do we have to be reborn... someone please explain.
Thank you
Hans

--- End quote ---


Hello & welcome to the forum Hans,

I would recommend reading the 'Too Many Notes' section under the Lake of Fire series 16-D4 (http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm)...here's an excerpt:

REBIRTH/BORN AGAIN: "...that which is conceived  [Gk: gennao]  in her is of the Holy Spirit... Now when Jesus was born  [Gk: gennao]  in Bethlehem..." (Matt. 1:20 & 2:1). Notice that words "conceived" and "born" are both translated from the same one Greek word gennao. So what are we to do with this verse: "Except a man be born  [Gk: gennao]  again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). Should this verse read: "born again," or "begotten  anew?" I once believed this verse should be "begotten" rather than "born," seeing that no one is literally "born" again in this life, but I now believe that context forbids this translation.  But how can Believers be literally born again in this life based on the context of Jesus' statement:

"That which is born of the flesh [that's all of us] IS FLESH [that too is all of us] and that which is born of the Spirit [are we now born of the Spirit? NO, and here's why...] ...that which is born of the Spirit IS SPIRIT" (John 3:6). Is anyone human flesh and at the same time SPIRIT? No, I think not. Jesus adds more proof of what it is like to be "born of the Spirit" - "The wind [Gk: pneuma-'spirit'] blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell whence it comes, or whether it goes: so is everyone that is BORN of the Spirit" (Verse 8 ). Right there are three reasons why no one except Jesus has been born of the Spirit: [1] We are not composed of spirit, [2] We are not powerful like the wind, [3] Neither are we invisible like the wind.

And so, we as Believers as "conceived" by the Spirit of God and have the "earnest" of His Spirit (Eph. 1:14), but we will not be born again (or anew) until we are resurrected with "incorruptible, glorified, powerful, SPIRITUAL bodies" - like the WIND (I Cor. 15:42-44).

This section is regarding 'rebirth/born again' but the entire article helps a person's understanding regarding 'rebirth, justification, salvation, reconciliation, etc.' Take a look and let us know if that helps.


Thanks,

Marques

EKnight:
My understanding is that we all must be reborn of the spirit, baptized in spirit, spiritually circumsized, etc..
This is all part of salvation, all will spiritually come into the knowledge of truth either now or later.  

Have you read: How Hard is getting Saved?

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html

Eileen

Kat:
Hi Hans,

Welcome to the forum  :)

We have this life and that is all we know, this physical state of being.  We're kind of used to this physical state and God has put in us an extreme desire to preserve our life.  So I think we tend to look on anything that is not a physical being as something not as good as what we have in this world.  But this is only the first part of God's plan for the human race.

1Cor 15:46 But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.  

First we need this experience in the physical, to learn about good and evil.  We all must partake of the tree of knowledge and that's what the whole human race is doing now, in this age.  

I think we also tend to fear the unknown, and what lies beyond this life really is unknown to all but a little handful of people.  The church has done it's job well at striking fear into the hearts of people about hell and mislead them also about heaven.  But actually the truth about the gospel of the kingdom is greater and more wonderful than we are able to comprehend.  

It's hard to understand from this human perspective that the spiritual is more real than the physical, but the physical is only a temporary existence and the spiritual has no end.  I think first God is giving us a backdrop of darkness in this corrupt world, before He brings us into the light, so we can truly appreciate how wonderful it is.  Right now in this age only a very few are having their eyes opened to this truth.

John 12:46 I have come [as] a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.  

2Cor 4:6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.  

Acts 26:18 to open their eyes, [in order] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.'  

1Peter 2:9 But you [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;  

Those few having their eyes opened have begun the process of slowing being shaped into the image of the Savior, being brought into the light.  

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.  

First God begins this process in us while we are still physical, He speaks to our heart showing us how to live. God's spirit works with our spirit helping us to desire the will of the Father above our physical desire more and more, so we are being "conformed to the image of His Son."  We begin to understand that most of our physical desires have us in bondage to sin and Christ in us gives us the strength to overcome.  We begin to see the spiritual meanings behind the words of Scriptures.  So there are a few that God will bring to spiritual maturity in this life, these are those that He is preparing to serve with Christ. These have a close relationship with Jesus Christ and their ultimate hope is the first resurrection. When Christ appears they will joyfully enter into the first resurrection and actually be born into the kingdom and receive incorruptible spirit bodies.  

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.  

v. 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,  
v. 17 and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with [Him], that we may also be glorified together.  
v. 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.  
v. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
 
v. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,  
v. 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.  

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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