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Author Topic: Aborted babies  (Read 3271 times)

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9440geoff

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Aborted babies
« on: August 27, 2009, 07:59:32 PM »

I was watching a TV programme about abortion the other night and it left me asking myself two questions, apart from feeling a lot of anger and emotion.

When a baby is conceived, does he/she have a soul immediately upon conception, or not until he/she is actually born? Doctors have said that babies in the womb can feel emotions, and can recognise the mother's voice. This would indicate consciousness in the baby, which I understand is the soul. Or is it?

The other question that came to mind is can a baby, that is aborted, be a part of God's elect? i.e. One of the few.

I'd welcome the replies of my BT family,

Geoff
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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: Aborted babies
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2009, 08:44:20 PM »

I was watching a TV programme about abortion the other night and it left me asking myself two questions, apart from feeling a lot of anger and emotion.

When a baby is conceived, does he/she have a soul immediately upon conception, or not until he/she is actually born? Doctors have said that babies in the womb can feel emotions, and can recognise the mother's voice. This would indicate consciousness in the baby, which I understand is the soul. Or is it?

The other question that came to mind is can a baby, that is aborted, be a part of God's elect? i.e. One of the few.

I'd welcome the replies of my BT family,

Geoff

Hello Geoff.

Quote
does he/she have a soul immediately upon conception

I would say yes.The combination of Gods Spirit with His handy work of creating new life in the womb[a fetus-body] would to me at least constitute of being human in nature, a soul.

Quote
can a baby, that is aborted, be a part of God's elect? i.e. One of the few.


I think as Ray has pointed out numerous times, Spiritual conversion is a life time process that must be lived out from birth to death through the Spirit, living in, and through you.If a person[fetus] is not aware of the Truths of the Spirit then I cannot see how an aborted fetus[person] could qualify to be called, chosen, and faithful to the end.


Hope this helps.  :)


Peace...Mark

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musicman

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Re: Aborted babies
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2009, 11:58:27 PM »

Come on Geoff, how can a fetus judge anybody once in the Kingdom?  I think you misunderstand the "come out of her my people" command.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Aborted babies
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2009, 03:52:30 AM »


I would just like to bring up something to be considered.  When God made Adam, when did he become "a living soul"?  With the "breath of life."

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Job also says, it was "breath" that gave him life.

Job 33:4  The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Interesting that he states his life is a breath.

Job 7:7  Oh, remember that my life is a breath!

Notice when Jesus Christ knew His death was imminent and His spirit would go back to the Father "He breathed His last."

Luke 23:46  And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, "Father, "into Your hands I commit My spirit."' Having said this, He breathed His last.

Many times the Bible speaks that someone "breathed his last" and then he died.

Gen 25:8  Then Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people.

Gen 35:29  So Isaac breathed his last and died,

Acts 5:5  Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last.

Aren't these Scriptures saying that physical life and breath come simultaneously?  We know that the soul is the result of the combination of body and spirit.  Isn't the spirit in man is his breath?

Pro 20:27  The spirit5397 of man is the lamp of the LORD, searching all his innermost parts.

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath5397 of life; and man became a living soul.

Both of this Scriptures use the same Hebrew word neshamah.
 
H5397
neshâmâh - a puff, that is, wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect or (concretely) an animal: - blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

The only time breath is used in the New Testament in the KJV.

Acts 17:25  Neither is worshiped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath4157, and all things;

G4157
pnoē - respiration, a breeze: - breath, wind.

The same Greek word is used in Acts 2 as wind/Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:2  And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind4157, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

I will close by stating the obvious, we take our first breath of life only after we are physically born into this world.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Roy Martin

  • Guest
Re: Aborted babies
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2009, 09:12:18 AM »

Adam was formed in maturity unlike being in the womb.I don't know how long it took or how it could have looked as he lay on the ground being formed. It could have been in an instant. I can't even imagine how it was, but it definitely wasn't in a womb.
 Doesn't a child in the womb receive oxygen in some way?
John still in the womb reacted to the presence of Jesus still in the womb. I don't know about if they had a soul but they were very much alive and aware to spirit or something.

 Peace
Roy
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Ninny

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Re: Aborted babies
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2009, 09:32:03 AM »

Oh, Roy...yes! A baby in the womb definitely, gets oxygen from it's mother's blood! Blood is life to an unborn baby for everything that sustains it's life is in the blood, much like our lives are sustained by our blood and the blood Jesus shed.... People should never think that because a baby hasn't drawn a breath that he isn't alive...I'm sure that's not exactly what Kat was saying ... an unborn child is still a child...and God gives us all that wonderful spark of life when a mother feels the first movements of her unborn child...absolutely a life, and the loss of it, although I never lost a child through miscarriage or abortion I know it is painful and something one never forgets..it is all in God's hands and that is a pain, the loss of any child for any reason, is one that causes my heart to faint...I cry to think of all the ones who never made it or were taken away too soon.......
Kathy :'(
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EKnight

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Re: Aborted babies
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2009, 09:56:34 AM »

These too are "fetuses" :

41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!

Eileen
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meee

  • Guest
Re: Aborted babies
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2009, 10:13:52 AM »

 Oh, I would think the baby is alive in the womb until it is naturally dies in the womb or is aborted by human hands.
       meee
 
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Roy Martin

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Re: Aborted babies
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2009, 10:52:10 AM »

Anything that has to be killed, is alive.

Roy
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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: Aborted babies
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2009, 11:00:25 AM »

Adam was formed in maturity unlike being in the womb.I don't know how long it took or how it could have looked as he lay on the ground being formed. It could have been in an instant. I can't even imagine how it was, but it definitely wasn't in a womb.
 Doesn't a child in the womb receive oxygen in some way?
John still in the womb reacted to the presence of Jesus still in the womb. I don't know about if they had a soul but they were very much alive and aware to spirit or something.

 Peace
Roy


Well said Roy.Abortion is murder.  :'(

I agree with Ray on this one.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4288.0.html

Hi Ray,
   
     I wanted to know what the bible says about abortion. I would be very thankful if you could shed some light on this situation.
 
    Thanks, Matt

 
Dear Matt:
Yes, I would be glad to:
 
"Thou shalt not kill [Hebrew: 'murder']"  (Ex. 20:13).
 
God be with you,
Ray




Peace...Mark
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Terry

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Re: Aborted babies
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2009, 11:01:32 AM »

God made a way for babies to eat while in it's mother womb, they kick, if it's oxygen get's cut off during birth it can cause birth defects, it must get it's oxygen through it's mother breath, if that's not alive i don't know what is.
Terry
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Terry

meee

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Re: Aborted babies
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2009, 11:58:08 AM »


[/quote]


Well said Roy.Abortion is murder.  :'(

I agree with Ray on this one.

Peace...Mark
[/quote]

Exactly what I told my daughter almost 11 years ago.   She didn't like me telling her , but I had to say it.  She still went to have the abortion done and I went to work and prayed and prayed throughout the day while at my job. That evening she came home and said they wouldn't perform the procedure until she went home and gave it more thought. They had asked her questions that made them think she needed to think more ,before going through with the abortion.    Well, she was angry and said she still was going to do it.  God caused enough time though, for her to think more on what she was doing ,and finally she decided not to have the abortion. Our grandson Kaleb, our first grandson, wouldn't be here today if God hadn't caused the things that occurred, to make our daughter have to make a choice that was different from her original intent.
The silly foolish reason she had even gave abortion a thought, was because she didn't want to loose Brad, she loved him. Brad had been hurt by another girl and didn't trust anymore. Well, he saw Kaleb was his when he was born with a cleft in his chin ,just like his. Still, a paternity test was done so he would definitely know Kaleb was his . He needed't have worried, Quin only loved Brad,he was it for her.
Our daughter married Kaleb's daddy after his birth and now they also have our Jakob.
All Praise to God!!!!
 hugs,meee
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Craig

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Re: Aborted babies
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2009, 12:08:11 PM »

After Marks post, I don't think anything else needs to be said.

Thanks for finding Ray's email.

Craig
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