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Author Topic: Matthew 8:11-12  (Read 3590 times)

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tinknocker

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Matthew 8:11-12
« on: August 31, 2009, 12:23:39 AM »

My wife & I we're studying together tonight and came across these verses:
Mat 8:11  I tell you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12  But the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Note that many will be called from the east and west and will sit at the table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But the sons of the Kingdom will be thrown into outer darkness.

Is anyone else seeing the same thing I'm seeing? We know that Abraham, Issac, and Jacob did not receive the promise so they will have to go threw the Lake of Fire.
Is this not a witness to that?

Tom
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cjwood

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2009, 03:09:07 AM »

hi tom,
in my understanding of ray's teaching on this, the verses in matthew are speaking of the physical jews of the nation of israel (sons of the kingdom), who will be in the outer darkness and have to go through the great white throne judgement. those coming from the east and the west are the gentiles (and the few physical jews who were believers of Jesus Christ) who will be of the Elect. the weeping and gnashing of teeth mentioned will be done by the unbelieving physical jews when they realize that they are not in the Kingdom of God.

claudia
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cjwood

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2009, 03:23:13 AM »

hi again tom,
i just looked through the categorized list of ray's emails, under the heading jews/gentiles/israel. i found one that is listed as jews "context". in it ray mentions luke 13:28-29 which says the same as the scripture you referenced in matthew. ray says that those coming from the east and west are the gentiles. abraham, isaac, and jacob were not jews, and will be in the first resurrection with the elect. that is why there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth by the sons of the kingdom (physical jews) who were cast into the outer darkness. that is because they will see the patriarchs and the gentiles entering the Kingdom of God before them. if i was more efficient in cutting and pasting i would be able to show you the exact email i was looking at.

claudia
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Marky Mark

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2009, 11:53:24 AM »

hi again tom,
i just looked through the categorized list of ray's emails, under the heading jews/gentiles/israel. i found one that is listed as jews "context". in it ray mentions luke 13:28-29 which says the same as the scripture you referenced in matthew. ray says that those coming from the east and west are the gentiles. abraham, isaac, and jacob were not jews, and will be in the first resurrection with the elect. that is why there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth by the sons of the kingdom (physical jews) who were cast into the outer darkness. that is because they will see the patriarchs and the gentiles entering the Kingdom of God before them. if i was more efficient in cutting and pasting i would be able to show you the exact email i was looking at.

claudia

Quote
abraham, isaac, and jacob were not jews, and will be in the first resurrection with the elect.

Hello Claudia.

  I believe that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will not be of the elect and so consequently they will be of the second Resurrection,but they will enter the Kingdom of God before the physical Jews,but not the Spiritual Jews.

Hope this helps.


Peace...Mark
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mharrell08

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2009, 12:08:23 PM »

FYI: This is the email that Claudia is referring to (http://bible-truths.com/email17.htm#context):

Dear Brian:

Your sarcasm doesn't mock me, but rather it mocks God and His Word.

I have had people write me thirty and forty pages of rebuttal on a subject. I have answered a few of them in the past before I started getting a thousand emails a month. And their reply was:  "Well, you didn't prove me wrong on all my points."   I would ask for just one point in PARTICULAR that I didn't answer, and yes, you guessed it, THEY WOULD NOT RESPOND.

Now then, to your two verses of Scripture that you believe CONTRADICT my OUT OF CONTEXT Scriptures.

    "Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that DOES the will of my Father which is in heaven."

    "Strive to enter in at the strait gate for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."

It is YOU, Brian, who have taken these verses "out of context."  You take them out of the context of the immediate verses surrounding them and out of the context of the ENTIRE BIBLE, and put them in the "context" of the foreign "traditions of men" and teaching of "paganism!"

Jesus was speaking to THE JEWS in Matt. 7:21; and Jesus was speaking to THE JEWS in Luke 13:24 (He came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel). The Jews were the FIRST to be offered salvation and a position in the Kingdom of God.

With your unscriptural and evil Christian seminary theory that truth lies only in "CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT," you leave out with these two verses THE REST OF THE WHOLE WORLD OF GENTILE NATIONS!  Put that in  your "context pipe" and smoke it.  TOO BAD that no one taught Jesus of this modern "exegesis principles of theology."

Did Jesus really say:  "Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth, but remember boys and girls, that God's word is truth, ONLY IN CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT."  Is THAT what Jesus said, Brian? (See John 17:17).

"God is LOVE" (John 4:16).  But remember, Brian, God is love ONLY in, context, context, context."

"God is SPIRIT..." (John 4:24).  But only in CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. Take God out of His "context," and He is no longer spirit, or love, or truth.  Hogwash!

But okay, let's stick to your context, context, context, theory and see if you have proven with these two verses that God will not save all mankind.

I said that the "context" of these two verses is confined to THE JEWS ONLY, for "in context" he was speaking to the Jews only, okay.  Now then, were the Jews the FIRST to be offered this salvation?  Yes, of course they were -- "go NOT the way of the Samaritan" -- remember?  But what is the context of these verses?  Not all of the JEWS that call Jesus "Lord, Lord" will "enter" the narrow gate to the Kingdom, will they?  No they won't. (Matt. 7:21).  Even of those Jews who "seek to enter" will "NOT BE ABLE"   (Luke 13:24).  They are the FIRST TO BE CALLED, but they will not be the FIRST TO ENTER.

    "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye [Gk: 'all of you'] shall see Abraham [Abraham was not a Jew], and Isaac [Isaac was not a Jew], and Jacob [Jacob was not a Jew] and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [JEWS] yourselves thrust out.  And they shall come from the east [Jews?  No, GENTILES], and from the west [Gentiles], and from the north [etc.], and from the south, and shall sit down IN THE KINGDOM of God" (Luke 13:28-29).

The Jews should have been FIRST, but the Patriarchs and the Gentiles will enter before them. The Jews will NOT ENTER FIRST!


But will they EVER enter?  Do the Scriptures state that "they will NEVER, EVER, enter?"  Is there such a Scripture in all the Bible, Brian?  NO, there is not. There are hundreds and hundreds of Scriptures [you gave me but two] that state that the evil, wicked, sinner, unregenerate, unrepentant, etc., etc., etc., WILL NOT be saved in this lifetime.  But is there ONE verse of Scripture that states they will "never EVER be saved?"  No, Brian there is not. There is a plan of God, a schedule, a time table, and "order" to who God saves and when.

Let's read I Cor. 15:22-24 in a more accurate translation than the KJV:

    "For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man also, comes the resurrection of the dead.  For even as in Adam, ALL are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall ALL [it's the SAME 'all'] be vivified. Yet each in his own CLASS [or order]: [1] the Firstfruit, Christ; [2] thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;  [3] thereafter the consummation [those at the end, the LAST]..."

Paul explains this perfectly and simply:  In Romans 11 Paul tells us that the natural branches [the JEWS] have been broken off and the wild branches of the Gentiles grafted in. But is this FOREVER? NO.  The natural branches can also be grafted back into the tree once again, and Paul says that they WILL BE (Rom. 11:24). Now what is the "context" of all this Jew/Gentile business?

    "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be IGNORANT [we don't want to be 'ignorant' of this context, context, context, Brian] of this mystery [a mystery that ALL OF CHRISTENDOM does not yet comprehend], lest ye should be wise in your own conceits [no danger of that ever happening, do you think?] that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL [if you don't know the meaning of the word 'until,' Brian, look it up] ... UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rom. 11:25).

Blindness to Israel was only to be UNTIL, UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.  Has the "fullness of the Gentiles" as yet come in?   No.  Well what about all of these millions and millions of "Jesus" rejecting Jews down through the centuries. Can they "reject" Jesus as virtually all of Judaism has done and still be saved IN THIS LIFE TIME?  NO.  Well then, just when WILL they be grafted "back into the vine" if not in THIS life time?   Why in the next, of course. All of these DEAD Jews will be resurrected back to life in order to BE grafted back in, but they will have some mighty DEEP REPENTING TO DO FIRST!   (See Phil. 2:9-11 Vs. I Cor. 12:3).

God used Israel for a time and then cast them away, but, as Paul asks:

    "Have they stumbled that they should fall?  God forbid, but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the GENTILES, for to provoke them [the Jews, Israel] to jealousy... For if the casting away of them [Israel -- Israel NOT entering the narrow gate, NOT entering the kingdom when it was offered] be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but LIFE FROM THE DEAD?   For if the firstfuit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, SO ARE THE BRANCHES... AND SO ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED... " (Rom. 11: 11, 15, & 26).

But you see, they are NOT SAVED FIRST, are they?  No, they are saved LAST!

If the Jews are cast out of the kingdom and not able to enter the strait gate, when will they be able?  When they are grafted BACK INTO THE VINE, in the next life, in the resurrection, in the judgment. For in JUDGMENT, they WILL learn righteousness:

    "When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of THE WORLD  WILL LEARN  RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)

And finally, back to your "context, context, context" verses.  Clearly we have seen that there are MANY who will not be saved in this life. In fact, MOST OF THE JEWS will now be saved in they life. They will not enter through the strait gate and they will not enter the kingdom. They will NOT be the first to be saved, but will they be saved at ALL?  Yes, of course they will, we just read it -- ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED!

When? Why AFTER the Gentiles come in -- those who come from the east and west and north and south (Luke 13:28).  These Gentiles will all come in FIRST, that's what Paul taught us if we are not "ignorant" of God's "mystery."  So if the the Jews are NOT FIRST, what are they according to the "context, context, context" of YOUR PROOF Sciprtures to me?  Let's read it, it's the NEXT VERSE IN CONTEXT -- Luke 13:30:

    "And, behold, there are LAST [the last-called Gentiles] which shall be FIRST [first IN the kingdom, first SAVED], and there are FIRST [the first-called Jews] which SHALL BE LAST."

Oh, yes, they "SHALL BE" in God's family. They "SHALL BE" saved, but they will be saved, LAST!

One final thought just to expand you thinking out of the theological hole of "context," let me show you where God likens His chosen people Israel to the God-jeweled city of Jerusalem, and where He likens the world of the Gentiles to the most wretched city of the Gentiles, SODOM. What is the fate of the evil city state of Sodom and the evil city state of Jerusalem? Right now, God is calling a people from among the Gentiles, but in the resurrection we saw that Israel will be brought back to life and grafted back into the Vine of Life once more. But what of the rest of the Gentiles that are not chosen now and the rest of Israel who was not chosen for the Kingdom?

Ezekieal 16 tells us.  Read the "context" for sure, Brian, but then see the conclusions OF THE CONTEXT!  God says that Jerusalem [Israel] sinned FAR WORSE than even SODOM (Ezek. 16:48).  Yet we see that God will, nonetheless, YET SAVE ALL ISRAEL. When?  And if Sodom is also to be saved in future judgment, when will they also be saved?  Read it in (Ezek. 16:55) which tells us WHEN this will happen.

Seriously, Brian, if you think you can FIGHT the Scriptures and TWIST the Scriptures I have presented above, and suggest that I have in the LEAST taken them out of your 'holy context,' then you are FIGHTING GOD, and not me or my writings.

May God be with you, and open you eyes to these marvelous pearls of God's Word which have been trampled under the feet of swine for centuries.

Ray



Thanks,

Marques

P.S.  Claudia, remind me when we get to the conference to go over some pointers for copying/pasting emails  ;)
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Loc

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2009, 07:02:49 PM »

Hm, some people don't know how to copy and paste?  Interesting.

This page should help you.

http://www.webmasternow.com/copyandpaste.html
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cjwood

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 09:37:37 PM »

to mark and my other brothers & sisters on the forum,
i did not mean to put words in ray's mouth which he did not specifically say, as in abraham, isaac, and jacob would be in the Kingdom of God with the elect. ray did say that they would be in the Kingdom of God before the physical jews, but after rereading the email i referenced (which marques posted), i see that ray did not specifically say these patriarchs would be of the elect. i will study this particular aspect of his email more closely and search to see if ray mentions anything else specifically on this subject. i apologize if i have confused anyone, and if i am understanding ray's email incorrectly.

claudia
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tinknocker

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 01:09:44 AM »

Thanks all, that gives clarification to these verses. I did a search on Matthew 8:11-12 and came up with nothing. I knew some of the gurus on this forum would know how to find something.

Again Thank You all who posted.  :)

Tom
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cjwood

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2009, 01:26:41 AM »

Hm, some people don't know how to copy and paste?  Interesting.

This page should help you.

http://www.webmasternow.com/copyandpaste.html

hi loc,
i am the "some people" you referenced in your post. not exactly sure what the "interesting" comment was for. i am pretty computer literate, but i have a new mac and am just learning my way around it. thanks though for the link. i will look at it and see if i can learn what i need to.

claudia
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cjwood

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2009, 05:19:47 AM »

below is an email i found in the categorized list of ray's emails, in which ray states when the patriarchs will be saved and how they will be saved. i again sincerely apologize for putting words (unscriptural words at that) into ray's mouth which he DID NOT say. i have learned my lesson well. i hope the following email helps to further your understanding tom.

claudia

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,839.0.html

What did any of the ancient patriarchs know of "saving grace?"  Answer:  Nothing!  And why is that? Because: "For the LAW was given by Moses, but GRACE AND TRUTH came by Jesus Christ"  (John 1:18).  Grace did not come before Christ, hence: No one was saved before Christ.  "These ALL died in faith [how many? 'ALL.'] in faith [did they all have faith? Yes.  Are we 'saved by faith?'  NO--'By  GRACE ye are saved....' Eph. 2:8.  Did they nonetheless receive the promise of immortal life?  NO....] NOT having received the promises..." (Heb. 11:13).

Could not the Patriarchs receive salvation through the faith that they had BEFORE Jesus came to die for their sins?  NO.  No Patriarch will be saved except through God's chosen elect: "And these ALL [how many? 'ALL'] having obtained a good report through faith, received NOT THE PROMISES: God having provided some better thing for US, that THEY without US should NOT be made perfect [Gk: 'complete.']"  (Heb. 11:13 & 39-40).

Well then, if their faith and good report did not and cannot make them 'complete,' pray what can make them 'complete?'  Answer:  "And ye ['ye' believers in Jesus, not those who knew not Jesus and did not have Jesus live in them, and who were not 'crucified with Christ,' etc., etc., etc.]...and ye are COMPLETE [how?] IN  H-I-M  [JESUS]"  (Col. 2:10), etc., etc., etc.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 05:24:35 AM by cjwood »
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Marky Mark

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2009, 10:40:34 AM »

to mark and my other brothers & sisters on the forum,
i did not mean to put words in ray's mouth which he did not specifically say, as in abraham, isaac, and jacob would be in the Kingdom of God with the elect. ray did say that they would be in the Kingdom of God before the physical jews, but after rereading the email i referenced (which marques posted), i see that ray did not specifically say these patriarchs would be of the elect. i will study this particular aspect of his email more closely and search to see if ray mentions anything else specifically on this subject. i apologize if i have confused anyone, and if i am understanding ray's email incorrectly.

claudia


Claudia,my Sister.  From one Truth seeker to another,we are all in this Spiritual journey together.Any and all post's concerning Gods Word and the lessons we can all learn are always welcome and appreciated,at the very least,to me.Together we grow as one in Christ,a win-win :)


Peace...Mark
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NoviceBeliever

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2009, 11:06:09 AM »


I'm with you Mark!  And was just reading this last night and thinking about how fortunate I am to have this family at BT. I am truly blessed, as we all are. NB

(Act 2:39 ESV)  For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

(Act 2:40 ESV)  And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation."

(Act 2:41 ESV)  So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

(Act 2:42 ESV)  And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

(Act 2:43 ESV)  And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles.

(Act 2:44 ESV)  And all who believed were together and had all things in common.

(Act 2:45 ESV)  And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need.

(Act 2:46 ESV)  And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts,

(Act 2:47 ESV)  praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 07:16:02 PM by NoviceBeliever »
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Loc

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2009, 05:52:37 PM »

Hm, some people don't know how to copy and paste?  Interesting.

This page should help you.

http://www.webmasternow.com/copyandpaste.html

hi loc,
i am the "some people" you referenced in your post. not exactly sure what the "interesting" comment was for. i am pretty computer literate, but i have a new mac and am just learning my way around it. thanks though for the link. i will look at it and see if i can learn what i need to.

claudia

Sorry, didn't mean anything insulting or anything.  Copy and paste just seems so elementary to me.  But if you're just getting used to a mac, I understand.  I wouldn't know how to do it on a mac either.
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Judess

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2009, 11:38:23 PM »

Hello Claudia.

  I believe that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will not be of the elect and so consequently they will be of the second Resurrection,but they will enter the Kingdom of God before the physical Jews,but not the Spiritual Jews.

Hope this helps.


Peace...Mark

Hi Mark,

Please excuse my ignorance but I saw that you mentioned 2 resurrections. I am very sure I read somewhere in Ray's articles that there will be only one resurrection. Or was it the rapture? Aren't they the same thing?

I am getting more and more confused. :(

Thanks in advance!
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Kat

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 02:03:45 AM »


Hi Judess,

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
v. 5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
v. 6  Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

The part of the verse slashed through is considered spurious, is on Tischendorf's list, so we will disregard that part.  But we see that the passage does mention a "first resurrection," so we can assume that if this is a first, there must be another.  The book of Acts mentions the resurrection of the dead, but has a distinction of the "just and the unjust."

Acts 24:15  I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
 
I think the confusion mainly comes because of the spurious part of Rev. 20:5, where it made it to appear that the first resurrection of the just and the second of the unjust is separated by 1000 years.  That is the only place in Scripture that suggest such a thing and it is spurious.  So I think we should consider that there is 'a' resurrection of the dead, the first resurrection of the just and the quickly followed by the second part with the resurrection of the unjust.

Here are a couple of places where this is mentioned in Ray's articles.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-A.html -----------

Hosea informed us that God will be death’s PLAGUE. In other words, God will be a plague to "sheol" itself, not the dead people who reside in sheol. In fact God says He will RANSOM AND REDEEM those in "sheol." Oh yes, God will ransom and redeem them ALL who go down to sheol, but not all at the same time. Remember there are TWO resurrections—One to life with Christ in His Kingdom, and Another to the great white throne/lake of fire/second death, Judgment.


http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm ------------

"Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as BRUTE BEASTS, in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; RAGING WAVES OF THE SEA, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever [for the eon]" (Jude 1:8-13).

Not a pretty picture of humanity. This is not speaking of just a few evil men that crept into the congregation of Christ's Church. This short book of Jude is speaking of two classes, two kinds, of people--believers and non-believers, those saved and those destroyed:

"I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not" (Jude 5).

Notice it: those saved and those destroyed. These represent the entire race. These represent the entire world of humanity coming up in two resurrections: "The resurrection of the JUST and the UNJUST." Clearly the "raging waves of the sea" represent the "brute beasts" that have "corrupted themselves." "Foaming out their shame..." Jude tells us. What is this but Daniel's prophecy of all such filthy dreamers coming into eonian shame and judgment:

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting [eonian] life, and some to shame and everlasting [eonian] contempt" (Dan. 12:2).

These brute beasts, these ranging waves of the sea, MUST BE TAMED, until they become a beautiful, crystal, clear sea of glass.

"And I saw another sign in heaven...And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God" (Rev. 15:1 & 2).

Yes, these are the Elect of God who are now before the Throne of God and are standing on a beautiful crystal clear sea of glass. They have been tamed. They have conquered the beast within and the beast of Babylon without. They are shown victorious over the beast, his image, his mark and his name, but it came at a price. Did you notice the words "sea of glass mingled with FIRE?" Yes, the world must go through the fire, the lake of fire/second death, and so must God's Elect. But here they are pictured SAFE (saved) not unlike when Jesus calmed the sea and saved His Own disciples from the raging waves of the sea. When there is no faith, the beast appears, and the sea rages.

And He [Jesus] arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And He said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith" (Mark 4:39-40).

Now for how and when the Elect must once die before their second death.
---------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Marky Mark

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2009, 10:57:25 AM »

Quote
Hi Mark,

Quote
Please excuse my ignorance but I saw that you mentioned 2 resurrections. I am very sure I read somewhere in Ray's articles that there will be only one resurrection. Or was it the rapture? Aren't they the same thing?
I am getting more and more confused. :(

Thanks in advance!

Quote
Hello Judess. 

   Just a little more to what Kat posted. Hope it helps.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7474.0.html

Also Rays paper on the rapture.Its a long read but please do read or reread it.

http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm



Peace...Mark
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 10:59:38 AM by Marky Mark »
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cjwood

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Re: Matthew 8:11-12
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2009, 05:59:40 PM »

thank you brothers mark and loc for the kind words of encouragement.

claudia
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