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Author Topic: The term "spiritualize away"  (Read 5771 times)

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love_magnified

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The term "spiritualize away"
« on: June 12, 2006, 07:41:02 PM »

I am concerned a bit with the term "spiritualize away." Ray mentioned something that made me grin a bit. He said that many times people say things like: "it's not spiritual, it's real." Aren't the things of the spirit understood by the things which are made? We need to remember that God is a spirit, and he is very real, so I am having trouble understanding the phrase "spiritualize away" as though it means to view scripture from a spiritual point of view is to make the scripture go away.  :?
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mercie

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Re: The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2006, 07:46:12 PM »

Quote from: love_magnified
I am concerned a bit with the term "spiritualize away." Ray mentioned something that made me grin a bit. He said that many times people say things like: "it's not spiritual, it's real." Aren't the things of the spirit understood by the things which are made? We need to remember that God is a spirit, and he is very real, so I am having trouble understanding the phrase "spiritualize away" as though it means to view scripture from a spiritual point of view is to make the scripture go away.  :?


Those which are after Spirtual Truths.

Like the Cleansing of Gods Fire not being a Place of Literal Torture.
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Daniel

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The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2006, 08:59:22 PM »

Love_Magnified,

I agree with Ray here as well. Gods "invisible" powers are known by the things which are made.

Even earthly patterns were of heavenly things. Our mind is renewed by the Holy Spirit and taught to discern spiritual things because all we can do is see natural things. But as we excercise ourselves, we learn to weigh and compare. Its by Gods very power helping us to know the scripture. Its by Him and His power to conceive a thought higher then our own. We cannnot know anything without Him. We are "naturally minded" until we are renewed in our thinking. When children, we are still yet carnal, unable to discern anything spiritual. But we do indeed grow from speaking as a child to becoming a man in Christ.

Peace

Daniel
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bobf

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Re: The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2006, 10:19:51 PM »

Quote from: love_magnified
I am concerned a bit with the term "spiritualize away." Ray mentioned something that made me grin a bit. He said that many times people say things like: "it's not spiritual, it's real." Aren't the things of the spirit understood by the things which are made? We need to remember that God is a spirit, and he is very real, so I am having trouble understanding the phrase "spiritualize away" as though it means to view scripture from a spiritual point of view is to make the scripture go away.  :?


I'm pretty sure it refers to "spiritualizing away" the carnal thinking of literalists.
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orion77

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The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2006, 10:53:19 PM »

This life we have in the flesh is but a vapor, and we are admonished to not see Him anymore after the flesh.  When we are raised incorruptible, will we not be in the Spirit and be forever with the Lord.

The Spirit, although this flesh cannot see it, is more literal or real than the flesh, which will fade away.  Gods word is spirit, Jesus when He was resurrected was received back to the glory He had before He humbled Himself to this earth.  The spirit is literal and more true than the flesh and its carnal ways.

The Spirit is more real and true than any fleshly thing can be.  The flesh is what we can see with these fleshly eyes and this carnal mind, but the Spirit goes beyond the flesh and into faith, in things which cannot be seen and yet when His Spirit is in us, becomes more real than what we see with the flesh.  It is like, when I look and see my hand, I know it is there, because I see it.  Yet the Spirit is more real than this, because His Spirit has witnessed to our spirit, and goes past the physical and into spiritual truth that the world cannot receive.


(1Co 15:49)  And as we bore the image of the earthy man, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

(1Co 15:50)  And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

(1Co 15:51)  Behold, I speak a mystery to you: we shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed.

(1Co 15:52)  In a moment, in a glance of an eye, at the last trumpet; for a trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed.

(1Co 15:53)  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

(1Co 15:54)  But when this corruptible shall put on incorruption, and this mortal shall put on immortality, then will take place the Word that has been written, "Death was swallowed up in victory." Isa. 25:8

(1Co 15:55)  "O death, where is your sting? Hades, where is your victory?" Hos. 13:14

(1Co 15:56)  Now the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law;

(1Co 15:57)  but thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

(1Co 15:58)  So that, my beloved brothers, you be firm, immovable, abounding in the work of the Lord always, knowing that your labor is not without fruit in the Lord.


Thanks be to our Lord, who has swallowed up death and the power of sin, which is the law, who has given us victory.  Now is the day of our Lord, if you have eyes to see and ears to hear.  It is incredible how many times this was spoken by our Lord.  Physical (literal) eyes and physical (literal) ears, cannot see or hear the things of God, for they are spiritual.  Yet what do they teach, nothing but literal, literal and literal.


(Psa 18:21)  For I have kept the ways of Jehovah, and have not wickedly departed from my God.

(Psa 18:22)  For all His judgments were before me, and I did not turn away His statutes from me.

(Psa 18:23)  For I was upright with Him and kept myself from my guilt.

(Psa 18:24)  And Jehovah has returned to me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands before His eyes.

(Psa 18:25)  With the merciful You reveal Yourself as merciful; with an upright man You reveal Yourself as upright;

(Psa 18:26)  with the pure You reveal Yourself as pure; and with the perverting ones You appear perverse;


(Jer 51:60)  So Jeremiah wrote in a book all the evil that should come on Babylon, all these words that are written against Babylon.

(Jer 51:61)  And Jeremiah said to Seraiah, When you come to Babylon and shall see and shall cry all these words,

(Jer 51:62)  then you shall say, O Jehovah, You have spoken against this place to cut it off so that no dweller shall be in it, from man to animal, but it shall be a ruin forever.

(Jer 51:63)  And it shall be, when you have finished crying this book, you shall tie a stone to it and throw it into the middle of the Euphrates.

(Jer 51:64)  And you shall say, In this way Babylon shall sink and shall not rise from the evil that I am bringing on her. And they shall be weary. So far are the words of Jeremiah.


This flesh and carnal mind has brought nothing but trouble, this is what is crucified daily, to die, the Spirit is what gives me life, and life more abundantly.  Jesus is the resurrection, the life, the way, the truth.  To die to this beastly self and let Him live is what it's all about, ain't it?   8)

God bless,

Gary
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YellowStone

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The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2006, 12:47:21 AM »

Quote from: Daniel
When children, we are still yet carnal, unable to discern anything spiritual. But we do indeed grow from speaking as a child to becoming a man in Christ.

Peace

Daniel


I will admit that we do grow from speaking as child to becoming a man of Christ; however, I must digress on the carnal mind of a child.  :)
Daniel, what do you think Jesus meant when he admonished his followers, by saying:
    Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw
[it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.[/list:u]As you eluded to:
    Rom 1:20 For the invisible
(spiritual) things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [/list:u]I'm not sure that now I am older, that there are not more trees in the way of the forest than there was as a child. I know I do not have the trust of a child; oh I trust God, but not without analyzing and weighing everything. Somehow, that doesn't seem right.

Am I the only one that feels like this........

Love in Christ,

YellowStone
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love_magnified

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The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2006, 01:19:41 AM »

The aspect of children that Christ wants to come to him is trust and obedience.

But don't forget, God is a rewarder of them who diligently seek. The scripture says that it is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings is to search out a matter. God conceals things by using the things which are made as metaphors for what he is doing before our carnal, blinded eyes. So children must grow. God does want us to come to him as willing children, but he wants us to also mature into men and women of God - no longer needing the school teacher of the visible, but able to see the spirit within and willing to risk being wrong if only to crave more of his truths.
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Daniel

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The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2006, 03:52:39 AM »

Quote from: YellowStone
Quote from: Daniel
When children, we are still yet carnal, unable to discern anything spiritual. But we do indeed grow from speaking as a child to becoming a man in Christ.

Peace

Daniel


I will admit that we do grow from speaking as child to becoming a man of Christ; however, I must digress on the carnal mind of a child.  :)
Daniel, what do you think Jesus meant when he admonished his followers, by saying:
    Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw
[it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.[/list:u]As you eluded to:
    Rom 1:20 For the invisible
(spiritual) things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [/list:u]I'm not sure that now I am older, that there are not more trees in the way of the forest than there was as a child. I know I do not have the trust of a child; oh I trust God, but not without analyzing and weighing everything. Somehow, that doesn't seem right.

Am I the only one that feels like this........

Love in Christ,

YellowStone


The humility Jesus was pointing out in a Child?

Mathew 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Children is used in various places expressing different things as far as I can see.


I can't speak for others Yellow. They, yourself, or anyone might not desire to weigh and compare or search these things out. That might not be in them or given to desire to do that. Thats ok by me. I seek out that in others because I truly do love to.

I find great satisfaction in doing just this very thing. Proving Jesus Christ, and those things which pertain to Him. Moreso a reasoning "out of the book" of the very life that lives in us. The scriptures testify of Him, but they are not Him. They are Gods words which speak of "the" word made flesh (Him) who is the Truth of them. He is the very Voice of Gods words, who comes to give us understanding and God says hear ye Him. So I do find a desire in me to do that. Not just in writing or studying or having "answers" but walking in the truth (in Him). To me it always comes back to walking in love as He teaches me. Even Paul said He needn't say anything to them on that for God would teach them in this very thing.

To me His words are life, I find perfection even in these comparisons. These things which bear witness not only to Him in the book, but Him in us. You can watch the truth of His words around you. Take your eyes off the page and look up and discern about you. I needn't another scripture to convince me of Him. The scriptures come to life through His light. The hearing of them comes through the one who gives us ears to hear. He is our sight, our truth, and our very life. He is so many things signified in the book. The reality however is Christ in us.

This book for nearly 20 years has been my only source of reading. He changes the way you read it, the depth He adds to it is nothing short of amazing to me. The more I learn the less I know yet the more I know of Him. A very strange turn over as much as there is paradoxes in the book so also are they the same of us. I am a believer in the revalation of Him getting bigger to us. Him surpassing knowledge in the dawning realization of His immeasurable love. I'm excited over this glorious thought Yellow.

Yellow I have been in the place of not seeing the forest through the trees. I remember that well. I have prayed to walls (I wished weren't there) for years. I had been torn down by others. I have helped beat up others. I have thought I knew something, and not known as I ought. I have hated not having all the answers. I have been decieved and stupid. I had no hope, then thought I did and I lost my hope. I did not know what my hope truly was anyway. I had also shipwrecked my faith and learned later not to do that. I exhausted myself silly and to my wits end.

Till I learned to pray to Him and not to walls. To receive mercy and give it to others. To help others and not beat them up. To not be wise in my own conceits, and to love my questions and refuse the answers :lol:  To trust no man but let Him teach me to love toward all men. To rely heavily upon Him who gives me understanding. To keep a good conscience and know who my hope and faith are simply in Him

More then you wanted, but I am rather longwinded Yellow. I can't say I share the same thought concerning comparing and weighing scripture. I think we all have seen what happens when one does not. Either way, I would never trust another to weigh for me that which my own hands desire to handle for myself.

Why settle for secondhand when firsthand is much better. Mary chose the better part and it was not at the feet at another. Just how I see it.

Peace

Daniel
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Daniel

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The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2006, 03:59:09 AM »

Quote from: love_magnified
The aspect of children that Christ wants to come to him is trust and obedience.

But don't forget, God is a rewarder of them who diligently seek. The scripture says that it is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings is to search out a matter. God conceals things by using the things which are made as metaphors for what he is doing before our carnal, blinded eyes. So children must grow. God does want us to come to him as willing children, but he wants us to also mature into men and women of God - no longer needing the school teacher of the visible, but able to see the spirit within and willing to risk being wrong if only to crave more of his truths.


That was beautifully put Love_Magnified :D  its not having the right answers (even all knowledge) its in knowing Him who is the Truth. All about knowing Him, our hope of eternal life is that very same thing.

The verse of God concealing something was the very verse that egged me onward to search, He sure wasn't lying :lol:

Peace

Daniel
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YellowStone

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The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2006, 08:22:16 AM »

LoveMagnified & Daniel,

Great responses from you both :)

Both responses align very well with the following parable which Jesus used to indicate the importance of seeking continuously.

    Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.  

    Luk 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this
[man] to reign over us.  

Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.  

Luk 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.  

Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.  

Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.  

Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.  

Luk 19:20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, [here is] thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:  

Luk 19:21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.  

Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, [thou] wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:  

Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?  

Luk 19:24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give [it] to him that hath ten pounds.  

Luk 19:25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)  

Luk 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. [/list:u]Jesus here uses a wonderful example of not spiritualizing away the scripture. It is not enough to just read, digest and shelve scriptural knowledge. Our faith is spiritual, but it is as Daniel put it:
Quote from: Daniel
To me His words are life, I find perfection even in these comparisons. These things which bear witness not only to Him in the book, but Him in us. You can watch the truth of His words around you. Take your eyes off the page and look up and discern about you. I needn't another scripture to convince me of Him. The scriptures come to life through His light. The hearing of them comes through the one who gives us ears to hear. He is our sight, our truth, and our very life. He is so many things signified in the book. The reality however is Christ in us.
The Word became flesh and likewise our spirituality must too be earthed, for any attempt to dematerialize the spiritual (wrapping in a napkin) is pointless and in vein, for all Scripture has physical application.

But this is not to say that the promise of the Kingdom will be brought forward in this earthly age. Doing so is to totally contradict the scripture and of the promise to come.

So we must diligently and continuously seek out the truth and the promise; learn from it and then growing to maturity by living and applying all that we have learned, just as LoveMagnified mentioned:
    Pro 25:2
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.[/list:u]Anything less is spiritulizing away the scripture.

Thanks to both of you for such fine responses. :)

God is love, and love abounds everywhere.

YellowStone
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mercie

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The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2006, 08:34:38 AM »

Quote
That was beautifully put Love_Magnified  its not having the right answers (even all knowledge) its in knowing Him who is the Truth. All about knowing Him, our hope of eternal life is that very same thing.


Amen Daniel.


Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
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chrissiela

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The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2006, 09:34:24 AM »

Beautifully put, Daniel.

Until God opened up the scriptures to me reading them was like walking around in the dark and bumping into walls. All I knew was what others 'told me' the scriptures meant. And I wasn't sure that they were much more than fairy tales or the imaginations of men.

I had such a desire to 'see' for myself and 'know' for myself but it seemed completely unattainable to me for so many years.

It has been less than two years since I truly came to the Lord (or He came to me  :wink: ) and I even KNEW that He existed. It was probably another 6 months before I really began to search and study the scriptures, which ultimately lead me straight to Him (in a very personal way). And it is now almost unimaginable to me how far He has walked with me in such a short time... after more than 30 years of waiting and praying and begging for Him to 'appear'.  [-o<

He is truly AMAZING and indeed the Rock of my salvation. And as much as I may gain from the work and the study of 'others', even now, there is but ONE Teacher at whose feet I sit. AMEN!!

Blessings,
Chrissie
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orion77

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The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2006, 11:11:19 AM »

=D>  =D>  =D>  \:D/  \:D/

(2Co 6:16)  And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are a temple of the living God, even as God said, "I will" dwell in them and "walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Lev. 26:12; Ezek. 37:27

(2Co 6:17)  Because of this, "come out from among them" "and be separated," says the Lord, "and do not touch the unclean thing," and I will receive you. Isa. 52:11

(2Co 6:18)  "And I will be a Father to you, and you will be sons" and daughters to Me, says the Lord Almighty. 2 Sam. 7:8, 14; Isa. 43:6

(Rom 8:35)  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

(Rom 8:36)  Even as it has been written, "For Your sake we are killed all the day; we are counted as sheep of slaughter." Psa. 44:22

(Rom 8:37)  But in all these things we more than conquer through Him loving us.

(Rom 8:38)  For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

(Rom 8:39)  nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord.


God bless,

Gary
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Daniel

  • Guest
The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2006, 11:30:14 AM »

Quote from: YellowStone
LoveMagnified & Daniel,

Great responses from you both :)

Both responses align very well with the following parable which Jesus used to indicate the importance of seeking continuously.

    Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.  

    Luk 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this
[man] to reign over us.  

Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.  

Luk 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.  

Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.  

Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.  

Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.  

Luk 19:20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, [here is] thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:  

Luk 19:21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.  

Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, [thou] wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:  

Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?  

Luk 19:24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give [it] to him that hath ten pounds.  

Luk 19:25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)  

Luk 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. [/list:u]Jesus here uses a wonderful example of not spiritualizing away the scripture. It is not enough to just read, digest and shelve scriptural knowledge. Our faith is spiritual, but it is as Daniel put it:
Quote from: Daniel
To me His words are life, I find perfection even in these comparisons. These things which bear witness not only to Him in the book, but Him in us. You can watch the truth of His words around you. Take your eyes off the page and look up and discern about you. I needn't another scripture to convince me of Him. The scriptures come to life through His light. The hearing of them comes through the one who gives us ears to hear. He is our sight, our truth, and our very life. He is so many things signified in the book. The reality however is Christ in us.
The Word became flesh and likewise our spirituality must too be earthed, for any attempt to dematerialize the spiritual (wrapping in a napkin) is pointless and in vein, for all Scripture has physical application.

But this is not to say that the promise of the Kingdom will be brought forward in this earthly age. Doing so is to totally contradict the scripture and of the promise to come.

So we must diligently and continuously seek out the truth and the promise; learn from it and then growing to maturity by living and applying all that we have learned, just as LoveMagnified mentioned:
    Pro 25:2
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.[/list:u]Anything less is spiritulizing away the scripture.

Thanks to both of you for such fine responses. :)

God is love, and love abounds everywhere.

YellowStone


Yellow,

Where have you received the idea that what is spiritual cannot manifest itself in what is seen? What was His own required by the servant? Could it not the love or mercy to be shown to others? Or even the measure dealt every man whereby we grow in the love and the grace of God? Is not the parable of reaping what is sown?

Psalm 37:2  The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.[/u]

For we give an account of ourselves before the Lord do we not? Proving faithful as Paul said. Good stewards Theres much in this parable.

1Peter 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

You can see somewhat of what Paul spoke concerning an account.

Phil 4:17  Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.[/u]

How would these things not manifest within us? Do we not reap what we sow? God giving our increase as we walk in obedience to our Lord and becoming more fruitful in our knowledge of Him?

I see these as beautiful spiritual truths, no less a reality which should manifest in our lives. Perhaps you differ on these things and thats okay. I will leave it at that then.

Peace to you Yellow

Daniel
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Daniel

  • Guest
The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2006, 11:50:02 AM »

Blessings Gary, Mercie, and Chrissie. Its believing that God is amen Chrissie a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.[/u]

Ephes 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,[/u]

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,[/u]

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.[/u]

Mathew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, "not knowing the scriptures", nor the power of God.[/u]

1Cr 1:24... Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.[/u]

Its all Him, the inheritance of the saints

Ezekiel 44:28 And it shall be unto them for an inheritance: I am their inheritance: and ye shall give them no possession in Israel: I am their possession.[/u]

As poor yet making many rich, as having nothing but possessing all things. The blessing of the Lord maketh Rich. The treasure in our earthen vessel. All the abundance given us in Him.

Truly nothing can be better then Him. What reward can be greater then Him? God is so Good!

Peace

Daniel
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YellowStone

  • Guest
The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2006, 02:20:35 PM »

Quote from: Daniel
Yellow,

Where have you received the idea that what is spiritual cannot manifest itself in what is seen?

Daniel, please show me where I even suggest such nonsense. BTW its YellowStone, for I am no coward :)
I wrote:
    The Word became flesh and likewise
our spirituality must too be earthed, for any attempt to dematerialize the spiritual (wrapping in a napkin) is pointless and in vein, for all Scripture has physical application. [/list:u]Are suggesting that Scripture has no physical application? Surely not! :)

I then wrote:
    So we must diligently and continuously seek out the truth and the promise; learn from it and then growing to maturity by living and applying all that we have learned[/list:u]And I guess you missed my first post in this thread that clearly shows and explains how Gods own sovereignty and divinity (spirituality) is clearly seen by what has been made.
      Rom 1:20 For the invisible (spiritual) things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
[even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [/list:u]I think you were way to quick to jump my friend. :(

With Love,

YellowStone
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Daniel

  • Guest
The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2006, 02:49:44 PM »

Quote from: YellowStone
Quote from: Daniel
Yellow,

Where have you received the idea that what is spiritual cannot manifest itself in what is seen?

Daniel, please show me where I even suggest such nonsense. BTW its YellowStone, for I am no coward :)
I wrote:
    The Word became flesh and likewise
our spirituality must too be earthed, for any attempt to dematerialize the spiritual (wrapping in a napkin) is pointless and in vein, for all Scripture has physical application. [/list:u]Are suggesting that Scripture has no physical application? Surely not! :)

I then wrote:
    So we must diligently and continuously seek out the truth and the promise; learn from it and then growing to maturity by living and applying all that we have learned[/list:u]And I guess you missed my first post in this thread that clearly shows and explains how Gods own sovereignty and divinity (spirituality) is clearly seen by what has been made.
      Rom 1:20 For the invisible (spiritual) things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
[even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [/list:u]I think you were way to quick to jump my friend. :(

With Love,

YellowStone



Yellowstone,

I'm sorry that I misunderstood the way you wrote the following

Quote
The Word became flesh and likewise our spirituality must too be earthed, for any attempt to dematerialize the spiritual (wrapping in a napkin) is pointless and in vein, for all Scripture has physical application.


Where do you draw from me that the divine nature we are being made partakers of is hid at all?

1Titus 5:25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.[/u]

I'm in agreement with you, these should manifest in ourselves should they not?

As you have said yourself, to which I agree

Quote
The Word became flesh and likewise our spirituality must too be earthed, for any attempt to dematerialize the spiritual (wrapping in a napkin) is pointless and in vein, for all Scripture has physical application.


Shown in the parable of our good Lord and the word sown in our hearts

Mathew 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:[/u]
 
You write,

Quote
Are suggesting that Scripture has no physical application? Surely not!


To which is my very point and I do agree, how do you see otherwise that I do not? This is what I thought you were implying, thinking in spiritualizing anything is to do away of a manifestting. Quite to the contrary. It is you misunderstanding me.

You write

Quote
And I guess you missed my first post in this thread that clearly shows and explains how Gods own sovereignty and divinity (spirituality) is clearly seen by what has been made.


Not at all, in fact I stressed the very thing on another thread with you concerning the same point. He is indeed Sovereign and His power which works in the things which are seen, expresses also the same power in us who believe. Moreso in that by the power exerted in Jesus Christ to raise the dead.

Quote
Rom 1:20 For the invisible (spiritual) things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


This is the verse we were talking about, one can indeed behold in nature itself His invisible power being undderstood beautifully through what is seen. On which do we disagree Yellowstone? I'm trying to understand what you mght disgree with, or which point you desire me to get across to me.


Then at last you wrote

Quote
I think you were way to quick to jump my friend.


How did I jump Yellowstone? What did I jump on? I don't perceive myself in all good conscience doing this. When I do I'm sure to admit it openly. It was simply a discussion.

I see we actually agree not at all disagreeing, how do you perceive otherwise? I apologize for shortening your name, I meant not to offend you, just to make it easier to type it, forgive me that I have done that. I meant no harm to you.

Peace

Daniel
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YellowStone

  • Guest
The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2006, 03:39:42 PM »

Daniel, let us before all else ask God for patience and understanding, because my friend, we surely need both.

Please let me clarify my point regarding

Quote from: Daniel
Where do you draw from me that the divine nature we are being made partakers of is hid at all?

    1Titus 5:25 Likewise also
the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid. [/list:u]

I'm in agreement with you, these should manifest in ourselves should they not?

You answered your question here: "the good words of some," but not all.

Not all that talk the talk, walk the walk, Jesus often chastised the Pharisees for doing the same
    Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. [/list:u]I am sure you have seen the Sunday Morning Christians, whom never seemingly practice what has been preached; their learned spirituality is more of an insurance plan than a way to live. They have "spiritualized away" the scripture in very much the same way as the third servant in the parable that I posted, being very quick to quote scripture to the letter, but little else.
      Luk 19:20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold,
[here is] thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

Luk 19:21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.

Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, [thou] wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? [/list:u]
The connection is that all three servants were given a piece of silver (or similar) that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

This is in the same way how we are to apply what we have learned in our daily lives. We must not wrap our spirituality up and shelve it for a rainy day. We must also never turn our hearts and eyes away from the spiritually that manifests in everything that has been made (see Rainbows, mountains, flowers, babies, etc..............) Rather we must honor God in all that we think, do and say.

So why do some see nothing, whilst other yet see but not understand? Simple, because of the god of this world:
    2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. [/list:u]But they do not see the divinity and spirituality of God in the dust, or the ocean or anything else, they see what they see and that is all they understand. Even many that go to church weekly, see no more.

    Daniel, there is no disagreement between us, perhaps we both over-reacted when a simple "Please explain ...." would have worked.

    Praise be to our God who is Love.

    YellowStone
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Daniel

  • Guest
The term "spiritualize away"
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2006, 04:48:54 PM »

Yellowstone writes

Quote
Daniel, let us before all else ask God for patience and understanding, because my friend, we surely need both.


I know I do, I would surely extend the same to you bro :D

Yellowstone writes

Quote
Daniel, there is no disagreement between us, perhaps we both over-reacted when a simple "Please explain ...." would have worked.

Praise be to our God who is Love.


I don't see one Yellowstone, perhaps we did, good to work out any kind of misunderstandings, I agree thats why we clarify.

Sometimes we can't even know there is a misunderstanding until after one arises. We would only ask the other in accordance to how something is first perceived (even if one was previously misunderstood).

Amen Yellowstone,

Praise be to our God who is just that, "Love". May He manifest Himself in and through us all that His good name be spoken well of. What a wonderful thing that would be.

Peace

Daniel
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