> General Discussions
Does God cause all things to happen?
darren:
I;m no good at quoting scripture If I quote a scripture you can bet it took me alot of time to find it. Still I have never heard any scripture saying God has evil in Him. This would be a contradiction of the scriptures that tell us that God IS love. Yes God created evil and He uses evil for divine purposes but He has no evil IN Him.
Yea Dave. like I said I probable just didn't understand. Since I have been listening to Ray's audios these last yrs he always says we have to really read and listen to the words in the scriptures, they tell us more than what we think. I have been really trying to understand the words that make up the scriptures. In eze 14:21 The Lord uses the word MY evil judgements. God;s judgements are not evil but fair and just. like I said I don't know much about quoting scripture. It take me forever look these things up. You pointed out that the sword, famine, destroying beast and the plague are (evils) in a sense. Yes I agree.
Darren
Roy Martin:
Here I go again round and round.
Am I ever going to understand this topic? How long did it take for most of you to get this?
God made us carnal then says don't be carnal, and we are accountable when we are carnal.
How are we accountable for the lust in our heart and mind? How can we do it of our own when we were created that way. What does accountable mean? If one is held accountable for his or her actions, then doesn't that make us responsible for something from a choice we make that God intended for us to make in the first place.
This is a very complex subject for me. I'm sure I'm not the only one. A lot of people say they have it, but do they really? I am not saying.. that I don't believe it; I'm saying I don't understand it, and in no way could explain it to someone interested without getting them confused.
If I build a beautiful house and put a rotten board in the main support structure knowing it will collapse eventually, then I am responsible and accountable. Not only that, but now I have to go back and build it back up and make it better.
I have always been an observer of nature; animals, birds, plants, etc.
Humming birds are very interesting. There is always one that is very greedy. I have feeders in different areas in my yard, and this one guards all of them trying to keep the others away. I used a water hose to run it off, but another took it's place. Suddenly like over night they all started feeding at the same time with no more greediness; well they still bickered with each other, but without one being dominant. I finally realized that they were about to migrate. They were eating like little hogs.
I could see us in them; the natural thing I mean. They were created to do what they do, and they can't help it. Yes! I know we are humans and have choice, but we, just like the humming bird and all creation are not responsible for what we do.
I want to see what those that see it and understand it do. Maybe if I could understand how we on our own get lust in our heart and mind or thoughts that we know are wrong. I have thoughts that I don't know where they came from nor do I want them, but they just keep coming back. If I act on a thought that I can't get rid of that I don't know where it came from or how it got there, I feel like someone built me with a rotten board destined to fall but I am accountable? I don't get it the way I want to have it.
Usually the one responsible is the one held accountable. This is what confuses me the most.
Peace
Roy
odinpop:
1Sa 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
mharrell08:
Hello Roy,
Try not to become frustrated with spiritual truths that you have trouble understanding. Instead give God all glory & thanksgiving for the ones you DO UNDERSTAND. A good servant that is faithful with a little brings a reward similar as the servant faithful in much (Luke 19:12-19).
Here are a few helpful email replies from Ray:
Email reply from Ray (http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm):
Dear Chris:
You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you. God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!
When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE! True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.
But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT!
Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying: Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED? Why? Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.
This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them. IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT. "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.
Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.
It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.
God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well! We have this absolute promise from God:
"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!
God be with you,
Ray
Email reply from Ray (http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm):
Dear Vince:
Thank you for your email and question.
There are a couple of reasons why God holds one accountable (not responsible--God takes the responsibility) for his sins even if he couldn't have done otherwise.
1.
People who sin and have no desire to please God, do not believe in the first place that they do not have a free will regarding their sins. They believe that they ARE in control of their own destiny. See the example of that I use of the Assyrian king in the latter part of my letter to James Kennedy. The king took credit for conquering all the nations around him. He though HE was the mighty one. He thought HE planned and did these mighty acts by HIMSELF. God informs us that the king was merely a pawn (or an ax) in God's own hand doing the conquering. Our pride and vanity will be conquered by God.
2.
We actually DO commit the sins that we commit. Whether we could have done otherwise is immaterial in as much as committing the sin makes us SINNERS. Think of sin as DIRT. It matters not HOW we got dirty--God is going to give EVERYONE A BATH LIKE IT OR NOT. God is God and He can and will do as HE pleases. And God pleases to put us through an experience of sin and death before He glorifies us with all the powers of the universe.
Sincerely,
Ray
Hope this helps,
Marques
Marky Mark:
--- Quote from: Roy Martin on September 26, 2009, 06:14:03 AM ---Here I go again round and round.
Am I ever going to understand this topic? How long did it take for most of you to get this?
God made us carnal then says don't be carnal, and we are accountable when we are carnal.
How are we accountable for the lust in our heart and mind? How can we do it of our own when we were created that way. What does accountable mean? If one is held accountable for his or her actions, then doesn't that make us responsible for something from a choice we make that God intended for us to make in the first place.
This is a very complex subject for me. I'm sure I'm not the only one. A lot of people say they have it, but do they really? I am not saying.. that I don't believe it; I'm saying I don't understand it, and in no way could explain it to someone interested without getting them confused.
If I build a beautiful house and put a rotten board in the main support structure knowing it will collapse eventually, then I am responsible and accountable. Not only that, but now I have to go back and build it back up and make it better.
I have always been an observer of nature; animals, birds, plants, etc.
Humming birds are very interesting. There is always one that is very greedy. I have feeders in different areas in my yard, and this one guards all of them trying to keep the others away. I used a water hose to run it off, but another took it's place. Suddenly like over night they all started feeding at the same time with no more greediness; well they still bickered with each other, but without one being dominant. I finally realized that they were about to migrate. They were eating like little hogs.
I could see us in them; the natural thing I mean. They were created to do what they do, and they can't help it. Yes! I know we are humans and have choice, but we, just like the humming bird and all creation are not responsible for what we do.
I want to see what those that see it and understand it do. Maybe if I could understand how we on our own get lust in our heart and mind or thoughts that we know are wrong. I have thoughts that I don't know where they came from nor do I want them, but they just keep coming back. If I act on a thought that I can't get rid of that I don't know where it came from or how it got there, I feel like someone built me with a rotten board destined to fall but I am accountable? I don't get it the way I want to have it.
Usually the one responsible is the one held accountable. This is what confuses me the most.
Peace
Roy
--- End quote ---
Hello Roy.
CLV
Revelation 4:11 Worthy art Thou, O Lord, our Lord and God, To get glory and honor and power; For Thou dost create all, And because of Thy will they were, and are created."
CLV
Colossians 1:16 for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him,
The thing made can never be greater than, or as great as, the One who made it.
Being created for God’s pleasure does not mean humanity was made to entertain God or provide Him with amusement. God is a creative Being, and it gives Him pleasure to create. God is a personal Being, and it gives Him pleasure to have other beings He can have a genuine relationship with. All is of and for our Father and that means whatever short comings that we as human beings have to deal with on a physical or spiritual level must be in accordance with the will of the Father.
There are many things in my own mind that I have to deal with on a daily basis,[as we all do],but honestly speaking, whatever the Father deems necessary for His end purpose is fine and dandy by me. Whether I fully understand it or not.
Hope this helps some. :)
Peace...Mark
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