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Does God cause all things to happen?
Kat:
Hi Roy,
I do understand how difficult this is, I think I just have an excepting nature is why I might get it more easily. But let me take a stab at this for you.
As you know God is the creator and sustains all there is and this automatically makes Him responsible for whatever happens. So He has a plan and in this plan He determined that human beings that He created required an experience in evil as a backdrop. Now that was so that when He would eventually show us righteousness we would have this backdrop of evil to compare it to and therefore understand it's goodness better. But what we do is indeed caused by our weak carnal nature and His creating us this way was not a sin in and of itself. But He does take responsibility for creating us this way and will rectify this completely. But it is our own weak nature created within us that desires for and is actually carrying out our own lusts... I guess that would be the rotten board. But the rotten board is not evil in and of itself, it did not start out as a rotten board, it's the nature of things that it became that way. Just like a piece of wood cannot remain perfect, all physical things must come to an end, so it will rot away. Because God made it so that all physical things will not last, is not evil. But He does take responsiblity for that.
Now carry this same analogy to human beings, we were created to be too weak to resist temptations to sin, that the nature of the way we were created. But God does not do the tempting, because it's built in, it's automatic.
James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
Just like a piece of wood rots, it's our nature to sin, "it's OUR desires." It was not evil for God to create us this way and He is responsible for that. But we are accountable for our own words and deeds, He did create within us the weak natural for us to sin, but He does not do the sinning Himself, WE do, therefore we're accountable.
And also there is no need for God to tempt mankind, because He has created beings (Satan and the demons) just for that purpose, to cause temptations in the world for this evil experience we must have. It was not evil for God to create beings eager to tempt mankind to sin either, it was a necessary part of His plan.
1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
All of this being as it is we know there is a good outcome for all of humanity, the few now, but the rest later.
1Peter 5:9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.
v. 10 But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.
v. 11 To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
1John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.
I hope this was of some help.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
arion:
--- Quote ---Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.
It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.
--- End quote ---
This is one of the most clear and simple ways I have seen yet to explain it. If we were responsible then we would have to pay the penalty for our own sin. God doesn't hold us responsible and God himself through his son paid the penalty for our sin. Yet as the Juvenile we are still accountable. The Juvenile might have to be incarcerated for a defined period of time to hopefully learn to do right and the Juvenile is suffering the fruits of the wrong that he did but it's not punitive punishment to the Juvenile as much as it is discipline in order to correct his behavior.
aqrinc:
--- Quote from: Arion on September 26, 2009, 10:38:01 AM ---
--- Quote ---Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.
It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.
--- End quote ---
This is one of the most clear and simple ways I have seen yet to explain it. If we were responsible then we would have to pay the penalty for our own sin. God doesn't hold us responsible and God himself through his son paid the penalty for our sin. Yet as the Juvenile we are still accountable. The Juvenile might have to be incarcerated for a defined period of time to hopefully learn to do right and the Juvenile is suffering the fruits of the wrong that he did but it's not punitive punishment to the Juvenile as much as it is discipline in order to correct his behavior.
--- End quote ---
Every answer i have read gives a different but still partially correct explanation, ALL Is Of GOD. What a Day it will be when all the murk is cleared away and we can see and hear clearly.
GLORY TO GOD THE FATHER And Our Lord Jesus Christ.
george. :)
cjwood:
excellent questions, and even more, the responses have been inspiring.
and that 'created, weak natural' within each of us, that sinful nature, is such a ferocious beast that it indeed wants to destroy us. and it can destroy us, causing us to stand at the Great White Throne Judgement, unless, we fight, fight, fight, and then fight some more this beast within us; remembering to dress ourselves each and every day with the armor which HE has provided for us. but, WE must learn from the experience of evil in our lives, and 'fight the good fight of faith' and resist, resist, resist the devil until he flees from us. as ray has said in many of his writings (not paraphrasing verbatim), that in this flesh we will never be rid of sin, but we can get to the point in our walk with our Lord, that sin no longer reigns over us (we are no longer a slave to sinning). yes, of course we will miss the mark at times, but it is with every missing of the mark that we must realize we need to continually seek the face of our Lord and Saviour.
the battle of this beast within IS the race we must continue to run, but; the Scriptures; ray's teachings; and this forum are the Gatorade we need to sustain our spiritual energy level.
claudia
MePogo:
--- Quote from: cjwood on September 26, 2009, 01:11:50 PM ---excellent questions, and even more, the responses have been inspiring.
and that 'created, weak natural' within each of us, that sinful nature, is such a ferocious beast that it indeed wants to destroy us. and it can destroy us, causing us to stand at the Great White Throne Judgement, unless, we fight, fight, fight, fight, and then fight some more; remembering to dress ourselves each and every day with the armor which HE has provided for us. but, WE must learn from the experience of evil in our lives, and 'fight the good fight of faith' and resist, resist, resist the devil til he flees from us. as ray has said in many of his writings (not paraphrasing verbatim), that in this flesh we will never be rid of sin, but we can get to the point in our walk with our Lord, that sin no longer reigns over us (we are no longer a slave to sinning). yes, of course we will miss the mark at times, but it is with every missing of the mark that we see must realize we need to continually seek the face of our Lord and Saviour.
the battle of this beast within is the race we must continue to run, but the Scriptures; ray's teachings; and this forum are the Gatorade we need to sustain our spiritual energy level.
claudia
--- End quote ---
A lot like I see it. Guess I have a weird outlook but I think of our lives as "school" and lessons given us, difficult tests and blessings. I know I'm probably making a fool of myself (hey, I'm old and yet still learning) but here goes: We are tried and tested and blessed beyond measure to be here on this forum. We have hurts that seem to never heal and lessons that seem beyond our abilities and, then, suddenly the clouds part and the sun (Son) peaks through. It's not over till it's over. Our trials are personal and different but it all comes down to LOVE; the greatest commandment. I can't seem to get it right. I grow prideful from time to time and my Father throws another foul ball at me and I fumble it. I find myself angry and unable to love. If I wish to walk the path of Christ, I must learn to say "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." How amazing is that?!!! I just can't seem to pull it off when things get rough. Sometimes I'm even angry at God, may He please forgive me. Why do you keep throwing these foul balls at me? Well, He is the boss and He knows what I need to learn.
One of the blessings of growing old is having time to see the value in unanswered prayers (if this sounds like an old Garth Brooks song, it is). Our Father, in His wisdom, knew along what was best for us. I can actually remember things I prayed for 30 years ago and thank God for turning a deaf ear to my prayers. His wisdom was awesome and my desires then so meaningless. I'm sure I don't have another 30 years to wait to learn who the Boss is, but I've learned to trust Him. Why must I go through the pain of life in this body of flesh and my repeated failures; falling short of who I want to be? I have children I adore and their pain, when life slams them, rips me apart. My own hurts rip me apart but I'm learning to trust. We will all return one day to our Father who first loved us and we will understand that His Will Be Done and why. Life, right now, boils down to love and trust. Enough rambling from an old lady.
Blessing to all and thanks for enduring my meaningless thoughts.
Pogo
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