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Author Topic: A Genesis Contradiction?  (Read 2954 times)

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carol v

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A Genesis Contradiction?
« on: June 13, 2006, 01:09:09 PM »

I have a question about Genesis 10 and 11. I have tried to research this myself but not getting too far.

Gen 10:5  Of these were the isles of the nations divided in their lands, every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Gen 11:1  And the whole earth was of one language and of one speech.

Yes, the Hebrew for tongue and language are two different words but the implication is there - tongue equals language. In Chapter 10, everyone is divided by language. In Chapter 11, everyone has one language.

What am I missing here?  Thanks for your input.

carol v
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ciy

  • Guest
A Genesis Contradiction?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2006, 01:30:12 PM »

I do not believe this is chronological.  I believe chap 10 is giving the geneology of the families over 100s of years, then chap 11 tells of a great happening during those 100s of years.

Like if I gave you my family geneology from 1850 til 2006, then I tell of something that happened to my family in 1930.  Maybe there is something else here, but I do not think so.

CIY
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orion77

  • Guest
A Genesis Contradiction?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2006, 03:09:49 PM »

Hello Carol,

The LITV has Gen.11:1 this way,

(Gen 11:1)  And the whole earth was of one lip and of one speech.


Then I did a search under "lip" and some interesting verses came up, not sure if it helps, though.

(Isa 29:13)  And the Lord says, Because this people draws near with its mouth, and they honor Me with its lip; but its heart is far from Me, and their fear of Me is taught by the commandments of men;

(Isa 33:19)  You shall not see the fierce people, from hearing a people of a deep lip, of a foreign tongue, that none understands.

(Eze 3:5)  For you are not sent to a people of deep lip and difficult of language, but to the house of Israel;

(Zep 3:9)  For then I will give a clear lip to the peoples, to call all of them by the name of Jehovah, to serve Him with one shoulder.

(Psa 81:5)  This He ordained as a testimony in Joseph, when He went out over the land of Egypt; I heard a lip I did not understand.


Hope this helps in your study.

God bless,

Gary
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YellowStone

  • Guest
A Genesis Contradiction?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2006, 08:27:30 PM »

Great question Carol V :)

I'm no Hebrew scholar but I did find something interesting in the use words: The words in question Tounges, Language and Speech used in the two verses do not share the same root Hebrew word (just as you stated)

Gen 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.  Also (Gen 10:20, Gen 10:32)
    Tounges
[03956]    lashown

Transliteration: lashown {law-shone'} or lashon {law-shone'}
Word Origin: from 3960
Part of Speech: noun masculine
Usage in the KJV: tongue 98, language 10, bay 3, wedge 2, babbler 1, flame 1, speaker 0376 1, talkers 1

Total: 117
Definition:
  tongue
  tongue (of men)
  tongue (literal)
  tongue (organ of speech)
  language
  tongue (of animals)
  tongue (of fire)
  wedge, bay of sea (tongue-shaped) [/list:u]

Gen 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
    Language
[08193]    saphah
Transliteration:
saphah {saw-faw'} or (in dual and plural) sepheth {sef-eth'}
Word Origin:
probably from 5595 or 8192 through the idea of termination (compare 05490)
Part of Speech:
noun feminine
Usage in the KJV:
lip 112, bank 10, brim 8, edge 8, language 7, speech 6, shore 6, brink 5, border 3, side 3, prating 2, vain 2, misc 4

Total: 176
Definition:
lip, language, speech, shore, bank, brink, brim, side, edge, border, binding
lip (as body part)
language
edge, shore, bank (of cup, sea, river, etc)
========================================================

Speech   [01697]    dabar

Transliteration:
dabar {daw-baw'}
Word Origin:
from 1696
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
word 807, thing 231, matter 63, acts 51, chronicles 38, saying 25, commandment 20, misc 204

Total: 1439
Definition:
speech, word, speaking, thing
speech
saying, utterance
word, words
business, occupation, acts, matter, case, something, manner (by extension)[/list:u]

Quite possibly the words had different conetations back then they do today. I tend to agree with CIY, in that the two chapters are speaking of two different times (though I do not think this view is supported in any manuscript)

But I think I remember Ray speaking of something like this before. His question, does it change or nullify the truth? Is the ressurection promise now void? I think these a good questions, for there are many seemingly biblical contradictions, like:
    1Sa 17:4 And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named
Goliath, of Gath, whose height [was] six cubits and a span.

1Sa 17:7 And the staff of his spear [was] like a weaver's beam; and his spear's head [weighed] six hundred shekels of iron: and one bearing a shield went before him.  

1Sa 17:50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but [there was] no sword in the hand of David. [/list:u]This is in total condratiction to the following:

    2Sa 21:19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where
Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew  Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear [was] like a weaver's beam

The [the brother of] Goliath has been added to many modern translations, though not appearing in any manuscript (nor my Hebrew Interlinear)
[/list:u]

I'm not sure if any of this helps, but I do not believe such contradictions change the promise. :)

With Love,

YellowStone
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carol v

  • Guest
A Genesis Contradiction?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2006, 11:39:52 PM »

Thanks to you all for the response. The contradictions can be a little disconcerting but I agree with you 100% Yellowstone...they in no way change the truth.

The Spirit inside me is always the best witness that the resurrection is in tact no matter what questions I sometimes have about the Word.

I appreciate this forum so much. Thanks again.

carol v
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mercie

  • Guest
A Genesis Contradiction?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2006, 08:01:22 AM »

Quote from: orion77
Hello Carol,

The LITV has Gen.11:1 this way,

(Gen 11:1)  And the whole earth was of one lip and of one speech.


Then I did a search under "lip" and some interesting verses came up, not sure if it helps, though.

(Isa 29:13)  And the Lord says, Because this people draws near with its mouth, and they honor Me with its lip; but its heart is far from Me, and their fear of Me is taught by the commandments of men;

(Isa 33:19)  You shall not see the fierce people, from hearing a people of a deep lip, of a foreign tongue, that none understands.

(Eze 3:5)  For you are not sent to a people of deep lip and difficult of language, but to the house of Israel;

(Zep 3:9)  For then I will give a clear lip to the peoples, to call all of them by the name of Jehovah, to serve Him with one shoulder.

(Psa 81:5)  This He ordained as a testimony in Joseph, when He went out over the land of Egypt; I heard a lip I did not understand.


Hope this helps in your study.

God bless,

Gary


Nice post Gary.

Mans self effort to Build a God of Himself.

Babel , Babylon , confusion

Isa 41:29 Behold, they [are] all vanity; their works [are] nothing: their molten images [are] wind and confusion.



Isa 45:16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together [that are] makers of idols.


ONE LIP , needs Circumcising? as with the circumcision of the Heart.

Exd 6:29 That the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, I [am] the LORD: speak thou unto Pharaoh king of Egypt all that I say unto thee.  


 Exd 6:30 And Moses said before the LORD, Behold, I [am] of uncircumcised lips, and how shall Pharaoh hearken unto me

Hearken? do Not hear?

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.

Mans Tongue

Job 27:4 My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.


Psa 140:3 They have sharpened( to teach) their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison [is] under their lips. Selah.

The  cloven( divide, cut in piecies) Tongues given at Pentecost


Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Psa 35:28 And my tongue shall speak of thy righteousness [and] of thy praise all the day long.
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