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Author Topic: You shall not surely die  (Read 1796 times)

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emkayfey

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You shall not surely die
« on: October 09, 2009, 05:18:02 AM »

It struck me while reading Genesis this morning that when the bible stated in Genesis "And the serpent said unto the woman,--Ye shall not, die". For God doth know, that, in the day ye eat thereof, then shall your eyes be opened,--and ye shall become like God, knowing good and evil (Gen 3: verses 2 and 5 Rothe). That was simply what happened! In verse 22 the bible says "Then said Yahweh God--Lo! man, hath become like one of us, in respect of knowing good and evil,--Now, therefore, lest he thrust forth his hand, and take even of the tree of life, and eat, and live to times age-abiding,---- (Rothe 3:22). Eve then said In verse 13 that she was deceived...what is the deception here or am I missing the point? Why is this scripture always construed as deception when it was what that was stated by the serpent (dragon) that actually happened and was confirmed by God few verses later. ???
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 06:17:58 AM by emkayfey »
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mharrell08

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Re: You shall not surely die
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2009, 12:35:39 PM »

It struck me while reading Genesis this morning that when the bible stated in Genesis "And the serpent said unto the woman,--Ye shall not, die". For God doth know, that, in the day ye eat thereof, then shall your eyes be opened,--and ye shall become like God, knowing good and evil (Gen 3: verses 2 and 5 Rothe). That was simply what happened! In verse 22 the bible says "Then said Yahweh God--Lo! man, hath become like one of us, in respect of knowing good and evil,--Now, therefore, lest he thrust forth his hand, and take even of the tree of life, and eat, and live to times age-abiding,---- (Rothe 3:22). Eve then said In verse 13 that she was deceived...what is the deception here or am I missing the point? Why is this scripture always construed as deception when it was what that was stated by the serpent (dragon) that actually happened and was confirmed by God few verses later. ???


Hello Emkayfey,

I do not believe Paul, inspired by the spirit of God [2 Tim 3:16], was misinformed regarding Adam & Eve:

1 Tim 2:14  Adam was not deceived, but the woman [Eve] being deceived was in the transgression.

Here is what the Lord commanded to Adam:

Gen 2:16-17  The LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

The Lord never said that man would NOT be like Him if he ate of the tree...only that man would die. Satan said that man WOULD NOT die, which was a lie. The Lord did not 'confirm' this lie later on.

Rom 6:23  For, the wages of sin, is death; but, God's gift of favour, is life age-abiding, in Christ Jesus our Lord.[REB]

We know that all if of God, including Adam & Eve partaking of the tree of knowledge...but the Lord uses Satan to deceive and tempt us to follow our own lusts, as He used Satan for with Eve.


Hope this helps,

Marques
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ericsteven

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Re: You shall not surely die
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2009, 03:41:51 PM »

Hi Empkayfey,

Read these verses from Romans and see if you can find some parallels to the story of Adam & Eve:

Rom 7:7    What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."

Rom 7:8    But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.

Rom 7:9    I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

Rom 7:10  And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.

Rom 7:11  For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.

Rom 7:12  Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Some important questions to ask as you consider these verses are:

1.  Is Paul speaking of physical death in these verses? 

2.  If he is not talking about physical death, what other kind of death could he be referring to? 

3.  Could it be that the same kind of death that Paul speaks of here is the same kind of death that God is referring to when He tells Adam & Eve that in that day, they will surely die?

Hopefully this gives you some things to think about.

Eric
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emkayfey

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Re: You shall not surely die
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2009, 07:25:46 PM »

Thanks Marques and Eric, (firstly let me assure you all that I am actually not the devils advocate ;D). 
From what I gather from your responses, I see that is the 'you shall not surely die' bit that made it a deception and a lie by the serpent as this is directly contrary to what God had said. Also, the serpent was the catalyst to the disobedience.
Is it worth asking why it was the serpent that first informed man that they would be like God; which God later affirmed, or is it that God gives us only the information that we need at any point in time ???
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mharrell08

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Re: You shall not surely die
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2009, 05:22:42 AM »

Thanks Marques and Eric, (firstly let me assure you all that I am actually not the devils advocate ;D).  
From what I gather from your responses, I see that is the 'you shall not surely die' bit that made it a deception and a lie by the serpent as this is directly contrary to what God had said. Also, the serpent was the catalyst to the disobedience.
Is it worth asking why it was the serpent that first informed man that they would be like God; which God later affirmed,


Satan was not the first to make this declaration...God did:

Gen 1:26-27  And saying is the Elohim [God], "Make will We humanity in Our image, and according to Our likeness, and sway shall they over the fish of the sea, and over the flyer of the heavens, and over the beast, and over all land life, and over every moving animal moving on the land. And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them. [CLV]

Whether the Lord relayed this information and in what detail to Adam & Eve, the scriptures do not say. But even if He did, how could they know what it is to be 'in His image'? One must have a knowledge of good and evil to be fashioned into the image of God, we know that to be necessary.

or is it that God gives us only the information that we need at any point in time ???

The Lord does not leave us 'comfortless' but leads us into ALL truth...but He works in 'times and seasons' [Ecc 3:1]. He works His perfect plan in making us into His image as He has done/is doing/will do for all humanity.

John 14:16-18  I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 16:13 ...when he, the Spirit of truth
[Jesus], is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come

1 John 4:4-5  They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

2 Cor 3:17-18  The Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.



Hope this helps,

Marques
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Jennie

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Re: You shall not surely die
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2009, 10:34:06 AM »

That danged ole serpent... he tries to bite us all at some point in time.
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emkayfey

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Re: You shall not surely die
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2009, 10:45:59 AM »

Thanks Marques, true it is God who declared his intention to make man in His image/likeness first...and it is that ssssserpent that made the smae statement it sound like a new revelation to man and then embellished God's word.
 ...all part of God's plan though, He's the almighty God.
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