The 'mark' of the beast?

[F@lgn0n]

Good day all u beautiful ppl! I was wondrin: the mark of the beast is not literal, it is a symbol that presumably refers to my carnal human thinking and dealings. So, in light of this, what is the connection between the 'mark of the beast' and 'buying and selling'?  (As refered to in Rev 13).  I'm afraid I just can't seem to tie the two together in my mind. Any insight would be most valuable.

[mharrell08]

Hello F@lgn0n.

  I had this on one of my files but can not give you the exact location of where this was posted in Rays work...

Hope this helps.

This was not from any of Ray's work...this was from a member posted in 2007.


Marques

[mharrell08]

My bad. 



Peace...Mark

No biggie Mark...I know it wasn't on purpose.

Regarding 'mark of the beast' and other symbolism from the book of Revelation, here is a good reminder for all.

Excerpt from '12 God-Given Truths to Understanding His Word' (http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm):

Does anyone believe that this is the ONLY "allegory" in the Old Testament which is written for OUR admonition. Hardly—the Old Testament is FILLED with such allegories, but who has "ears to hear and eyes to see?" And "who will believe our report?" The whole book of Revelation is explained in the Old Testament Scriptures, but the theologians of this world do not and cannot discern it. They all teach that Revelation is a book of end-time, end-of-the-world eschatology. They have not a clue.

Sometimes we all need to dig deep into the scriptures to help in our understanding of the scriptures. No implying that the member's comments weren't so, but just stating for discussion sake. We have many questions regarding a symbol from Revelation...but few ever actually dig through the OT for a spiritual match to bring forth in their opening thread.

The Lord speaks of a mark on one's hand & forehead in the book of Deuteronomy:

Deut: 6:5-9  thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

And thou shalt bind them ['these words I command thee this day'] for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets [Heb 'mark']between thine eyes [forehead]. And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

Deut 11:18  Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

as well as Exodus:

Exo 13:8-9  thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt. And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.

Exo 13:15-16  ...it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem. And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt.

The marks that the ancient Israelite were to carry was a testament of God's Word and glorious Works. This was done as a sign of worship to God.

The mark of the Beast is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE. It is blasphemous and opposes God and all that dwells in Heaven (Rev 13:6). Those who are NOT IN CHRIST worship and carry this mark (Rev 13:8 ). So on and so on...


Hope this helps,

Marques

[G. Driggs]

Good day F@lgn0n, I found these concerning what Ray has said about buying and selling in relation to the mark of the beast.

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From 'The Book of Revelation is a Book of Symbols'
@ http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

"Will people be literally tattooed with marks (bar codes, swastikas, Social Security numbers, implanted with computer chips or one of a hundred unscriptural marks being suggested by fundamentalist prophets) in their hands and on their foreheads so that men cannot buy or sell ice cream or automobiles without these marks? Self-appointed prophets of doom haven't a clue as to what this mark of the beast really is or the number of his name. I have already been barred from buying and selling recently because I refuse to brandish this "mark of the beast"!

From 'What Happened to the Church Jesus Built?' @ http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html

JESUS GOES TO CHURCH

"Perhaps you never thought of Jesus going to Church, but He did. The first time that something is mentioned in Scripture, it is often very instructive. Although it was the habit of Jesus to attend local synagogues during His life, the first time the Scriptures mention Jesus going to the temple as a adult is in Matt. 21:12:

   "And they came to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to CAST OUT them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. And He taught, saying unto them, 'Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the House of Prayer? But ye have made it a DEN OF THIEVES [Gk: 'burglars' cave'].' And the SCRIBES and CHIEF PRIESTS heard it, and sought how they might DESTROY HIM: for they feared Him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine" (Mark 11:15-18).

What a revelation of the church of God we have in these three verses!

Jesus was so angry with the leaders at the temple for turning it into a money-making flea market, that he:

  1.

     "cast out them that sold and bought in the temple"
  2.

     "overthrew the tables of the moneychangers and seats of them that sold doves"
  3.

     "suffered no one to carry vessels [of merchandise] through the temple"

Jesus said that they "made the House of Prayer a DEN OF THIEVES"!

Say, did you notice that they were buying and selling "...in the Temple?" Do you think that just maybe this has anything to do with the fact that,

   "...NO MAN might BUY OR SELL, save he that had the MARK OR THE NAME OF THE BEAST, or the NUMBER OF HIS NAME" (Rev. 13:17)?

We will cover the Mark of the Beast in a later installment.

But this is all ancient history, isn't it? The modern Church of God has not been turned into a "den of thieves" has it? Were the High priests and Scribes, going against the law of either their own religious beliefs or of Rome? No. No, they weren't. So they were not "thieves" according to the Church or the Roman government. But were they thieves, nonetheless? Yes, they were, Jesus Christ SAID THEY WERE THIEVES, a whole "DEN OF THIEVES"!

At least the modern Church of God is not a "den of thieves," is it? I'm sure not all; you can be the judge:

One of the major factors in the Reformation was the disdain over the practice of the Church selling INDULGENCES. The American Heritage College Dictionary, "indulgence n. 6. Roman Catholic Church The remission of temporal punishment still due for a sin that has been sacramentally absolved."

Make no mistake about it:

   "For the love of money is the [Gk. 'a'] root of all evil" (I Tim. 6:10).

Before the Reformation, it was thought by some that one could practically "buy" one's salvation.

Jesus "CAST OUT them that sold and bought in the temple." Is there, "buying and selling" going on in the Church today? Excuse me...does a cat have a tail?

Now don't think that I am against money. Jesus Himself used money in his ministry (but he never sold in the temple, neither did He ever collect a penny in tithe money).

I couldn't count the number of e-mails I have received in response to my article on tithing being unscriptural under the new covenant, in which they ask how they should pay their church utility bill if the people don't tithe? I tell them to pay it with a check backed by money in the bank. All those interested in paying the utility bill should contribute voluntary offerings of money for that expense. This is not difficult. But no one under the New Covenant is obligated by law or conscience to pay ten percent of their salaries to a church! People under the Old Covenant, likewise, were not under law to pay ten percent of their salaries to the Levites. And, Yes, they did have money back then.

UNSCRUPULOUS PEDDLERS OF GOD'S WORD

After Jesus THREW OUT those who "bought and sold" in the temple, did they ever return? Not only did they return to the temple after Christ's resurrection, but they also came into the very Church, which Jesus said HE WOULD BUILD. The whole temple system in Jerusalem was so utterly corrupt that they corrupted the people of Jerusalem and Judea as well.

In and around 70 AD the armies of Titus surrounded Jerusalem and there was an awful slaughter. You can read of these horrible events in the writings of Josephus. But even before the temple with its corrupt religious system was demolished, it had already spread its ugly tentacles into the Church which Jesus built."

From "You Fools! You Hypocrites! You Snakes!" [Meet the Real Jesus Many Hate]
@http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm

AN ANGRY CHRIST IN A DEN OF THIEVES

"Did JESUS ever get angry over crime and corruption within the church?

   "And they came to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to CAST OUT them that sold and bought in the temple, and OVERTURNED the table of the money-changers, and the SEATS of them that sold doves: And would NOT ALLOW that any man should carry any wares through the temple"(Mark 11:15-16).

Now then, were any of these activities being performed in the Temple ILLEGAL? No, they were not. The officers of the Temple allowed it according to their laws, and the Roman Government allowed it according to their laws. So these merchants in the Temple were not criminals. Or were they?

Jesus said they were CRIMINALS! But woe unto me if I should suggest that this same buying and selling in the Churches today is criminal! It IS criminal, I assure you, it is CRIMINAL. And they do FAR WORSE in today's churches! They not only sell trinkets and religious junk in the Church, they MAKE MERCHANDISE OF THE VERY WORD OF GOD ITSELF. THEY SELL THE WORD OF GOD FOR PROFITS! Here is what Christ said concerning their activities of buying and selling in the Temple:

   "And He taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the House of Prayer? But you have made it a DEN OF THIEVES" (Mark 11:17)!

Does anyone believe that Jesus was SMILING while He turned over their tables and accused them of making His House a "DEN OF THIEVES?"

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It seems if you do not agree or believe or teach (buy or sell) Babylon's false doctrines then you will not be allowed in their churches, and they will kick you out and really try to make you look bad and persecute you. I could be wrong and maybe someone else can confirm or correct me.


Hope this helps.

Peace, G.Driggs

[mharrell08]

It seems if you do not agree or believe or teach (buy or sell) Babylon's false doctrines then you will not be allowed in their churches, and they will kick you out and really try to make you look bad and persecute you. I could be wrong and maybe someone else can confirm or correct me.


Hope this helps.

Peace, G.Driggs

Absolutely George...thanks for the references from the LOF series too. 


Marques

[arion]

Your not only not allowed in their churches but if you come across a group of them on the internet no matter what daughter of Babylon they belong to they will hoot you to scorn if you tell them that Christ will save all in the ages to come or that God is too good to torture anyone the way human beings do.  You have to at least buy and sell into the most henious doctrines to be accepted.  They will tolerate you quite often if you belong to a different stripe of Babylon then they do but if you don't believe in hell and eternal torture then it's off with your head time.

[musicman]

What was it that they were doing in the Temple when Christ over turned the tables?

[mharrell08]

What was it that they were doing in the Temple when Christ over turned the tables?

Matt 21:12  Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

Mark 11:15-16  ...Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple

Luke 19:45  He [Jesus] went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought

John 2:13-16  ...Jesus went up to Jerusalem. And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.


Marques

[F@lgn0n]

Thnk u all 4 ur input. Let me see if i got what it is ur sayin: the statement 'no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark of the beast' essentially means that i will not be allowed to partake of or fellowship (buy/sell) in the churches of the Babylon system unless I subscribe to their false doctrines and teachings (mark o-t beast)? So - the mark of the beast is the 'inverse' of Gods instruction to ancient Israel to bind His Law to themselves.  ie: they (the members of babylon) bind themselves to false doctrines. Do I have it right?

[mharrell08]

Thnk u all 4 ur input. Let me see if i got what it is ur sayin: the statement 'no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark of the beast' essentially means that i will not be allowed to partake of or fellowship (buy/sell) in the churches of the Babylon system unless I subscribe to their false doctrines and teachings (mark o-t beast)? So - the mark of the beast is the 'inverse' of Gods instruction to ancient Israel to bind His Law to themselves.  ie: they (the members of babylon) bind themselves to false doctrines. Do I have it right?

Bingo...though Babylon has influence over many 'peoples, multitudes, nations, tongues' [Rev 17:15].

So it's not just in a church building or organization that one will not be able to buy or sell without worshiping the Beast. It's not just a church building that we are to 'Come out of her, My People' [Rev 18:4]. It's in all facets of life that fall under 'the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, which is not of the Father, but is of the world.' [1 John 2:16].


Marques

[Marky Mark]

Ray sums it up nicely.The beast is everything that goes against Gods ways and His truths {The lawless one}. We are all beasts of the field,until that time when the Father drags you into His Truth.

Whenever man builds his spiritual house upon the spiritual sand, his spiritual house will fall. And it is then that God reveals to him the wild beast that comes out of the sea. What does Paul tell us happens when there comes a 'FALLING AWAY' first? What follows? When our house on sand falls, what is then revealed? Why "the LAWLESS one" is "REVEALED." When the falling away occurs, then the man of sin, 'the lawless one' 'the one destined for destruction' is REVEALED.

And what a revelation it is! What a blast of the trumpet it is! What a shock to all humanity when at long last this wild beast is revealed to EVERYONE! Trust me when I tell you that it is a hard pill to swallow. It will shake you to your sandy foundation.

As I am now at the end of this Part XIII, I don't want to close without revealing just who it is that constitutes the wild beast of Revelation 13 and the lawless one of II Thes. 2. I did title this Installment: Who is the Beast? And so I will tell you.

"So okay Ray, enough, TELL US WHO THE BEAST IS. Who? Tell us WHO?"

The "beast" is you!

CLV
2Th 2:1 Now we are asking you, brethren, for the sake of the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to Him,
2Th 2:2 that you be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be alarmed, either through spirit, or through word, or through an epistle as through us, as that the day of the Lord is present."
2Th 2:3 No one should be deluding you by any method, for, should not the apostasy be coming first and the man of lawlessness be unveiled, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4 who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?
2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that, still being with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now you are aware what is detaining, for him to be unveiled in his own era."
2Th 2:7 For the secret of lawlessness is already operating. Only when the present detainer may be coming to be out of the midst,
2Th 2:8 then will be unveiled the lawless one (whom the Lord Jesus will despatch with the spirit of His mouth and will discard by the advent of His presence),
2Th 2:9 whose presence is in accord with the operation of Satan, with all power and signs and false miracles"
2Th 2:10 and with every seduction of injustice among those who are perishing, because they do not receive the love of the truth for their salvation."
2Th 2:11 And therefore God will be sending them an operation of deception, for them to believe the falsehood,
2Th 2:12 that all may be judged who do not believe the truth, but delight in injustice."
2Th 2:13 Now we ought to be thanking God always concerning you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, seeing that God prefers you from the beginning for salvation, in holiness of the spirit and faith in the truth,
2Th 2:14 into which He also calls us through our evangel, for the procuring of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2Th 2:15 Consequently, then, brethren, stand firm, and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, whether through word or our epistle."
2Th 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God, our Father, Who loves us, and is giving us an eonian consolation and a good expectation in grace,
2Th 2:17 be consoling your hearts and establish you in every good work and word.



Peace...Mark

[Bamabee]

Thanks for answering everyone.  That helped me, too.

[Akira329]

Great!!