Keeping my lamplight to myself. (Rather trivial but...)

[Marky Mark]

Maybe whats most important right now is that you "come out of her", study and learn these truths and live them.

Sound advice George.


Also,a little snippet from our teacher on teaching.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5605.0.html

BOTTOM LINE:  It is not necessary; we are not obligated; it is not incumbent upon us; we do no NEED to prove our faith to the satisfaction of those who DESPISE THE WORD OF GOD!  If we know it in our hearts and minds we are not obligated to prove it to these people that despise the word of God, we're not obligated.  But I teach this, of course for our benefit.




Peace...Mark

[Linny]

If it were me I'd say the following.
"I have no interest in debating you.  I appreciate that you are concerned about me but you can trust that I am right where God wants me to be. I am a student and not a teacher at this time."
Just my opinion.
Lin

[Kat]

Hi Astrapho,

I can see that you are having a lot of trouble standing up for what you believe.  Not that you are letting these people sway you in their beliefs, but you just can't stand up to them.  Well if you just are not ready to give an answer, then don't.  Come up with a one liner that you can say and repeat until these people give up and leave you alone, like 'I am not ready to discuss this with you right now, I will let you know when I am.'  Maybe if you have something you are ready to say, then you won't have those undesirable things pop out.

But something else you can do is to give them the BT web address and tell them this is where you learned everything you know.  Now I know you may be thinking that they will come back and confront you with what is on the site and you may not want that.  Well just give them your one liner, 'I am not ready to discuss this with you right now, I will let you know when I am.'

Anyway just wanted to encourage you and see if I could offer a little help 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[mharrell08]

Sorry for the length, but this passage came to mind:

John 9

And as Jesus passed by, He saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

I must work the works of Him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. When He had thus spoken, He spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay, And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he. Therefore said they unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

Then said they unto him, Where is He? He said, I know not. They brought to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind. And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes. Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see.

Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them. They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet. But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind, and received his sight, until they called the parents of him that had received his sight.

And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who ye say was born blind? how then doth he now see? His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind: But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself. These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue. Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.

Then again called they the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner. He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see. Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes? He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be His disciples?

Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples. We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is. The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence He is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes. Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth His will, him He heareth. Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind. If this man were not of God, He could do nothing.

They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they CAST HIM OUT. Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, He said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen Him, and it is He that talketh with thee. And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped Him.

And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto Him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.


Hello Astrapho,

I just wanted to say, don't be surprised if the above passage happens with you, whether in your next encounter or another.

James 1:2-3  Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 



Keep the faith Astrapho,

Marques

[Astrapho]

Thanks for all the awesome advice! Especially Marques, I didn't even think of that passage until you brought it up. How marvellous!

"I have no interest in debating you.  I appreciate that you are concerned about me but you can trust that I am right where God wants me to be. I am a student and not a teacher at this time."

Ahh yes, I told her a lot of times that I don't want to debate. But she is one of those hellers who sincerely does not want people to go to hell and therefore must preach to them until they accept, so she insists on talking to me (I managed to drag it till tomorrow). And she's one of my closest friends. So I don't really know what to do. Should I tell her the gospel (at the risk of turning teacher though I'm certainly not qualified)? Or should I tell her exactly what I quoted above (keeping my lamplight to myself)?

(It would be made so much easier if she would visit bible-truths.com, but she flatly refuses to go to "any other website that's contrary to my pastor's teachings". )

In the meantime, time to roll up my sleeves and pray to be able to do more good works... :x

[Linny]

I think I'd ask her what she believes one must do to be saved. In that you agree-confess that Jesus is Lord. If you are a believer in Jesus as Lord, why must you agree with other church teachings? Ask her for the scripture that says one must believe in hell to be saved. Obviously there is none so what in the world is she so worried about you for? If you are a believer in Jesus as Lord, why must you agree with other church teachings?
I stick to this and repeat that you have no interest in debating the other things at this time. You're saved even by her standards so why is this such an issue for her?

[G. Driggs]

"I have no interest in debating you.  I appreciate that you are concerned about me but you can trust that I am right where God wants me to be. I am a student and not a teacher at this time."

Ahh yes, I told her a lot of times that I don't want to debate. But she is one of those hellers who sincerely does not want people to go to hell and therefore must preach to them until they accept, so she insists on talking to me (I managed to drag it till tomorrow). And she's one of my closest friends. So I don't really know what to do. Should I tell her the gospel (at the risk of turning teacher though I'm certainly not qualified)? Or should I tell her exactly what I quoted above (keeping my lamplight to myself)?



In the meantime, time to roll up my sleeves and pray to be able to do more good works... :x

I think Linny gave you good advice (as did everyone saying the same thing), and by saying what she told you to say, you would actually be shining your lamplight by avoiding a debate. Your lamplight is not what you say, it is what you do. I did not fully realize this until you started this thread, so I must thank you for that. Now these Scriptures makes a lot more sense to me.

Psa 119:105  NUN: Your Word is a lamp to my feet, and a light to my path.

Pro 6:23  For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life;
Pro 6:24  to keep you from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman (Babylon?).


Jesus is that light, He is our example on how to live, how to walk righteously in world of darkness, and people will notice what you do more than what you say, and quite possibly persecute you for the way you live through Christ. I think once a person begins living right by God, and repenting, then they will begin to talk right.

Joh 1:4  In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5  And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overtake it.

Luk 1:79  to give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

So let your lamplight shine and let them taste your salt by what you do, no need to hide it.

Mat 5:13  You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt loses its savor, with what shall it be salted? It is no longer good for anything, but to be thrown out and to be trodden underfoot by men.
Mat 5:14  You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Mat 5:15  Nor do men light a lamp and put it under the grain-measure, but on a lampstand. And it gives light to all who are in the house.
Mat 5:16  Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father who is in Heaven. 

Luk 11:33  No one, when he has lighted a lamp, puts it in a secret place, or under a grain-measure, but on a lampstand, so that they who come in may see the light.
Luk 11:34  The light of the body is the eye. Therefore when your eye is sound, your whole body also is full of light. But when your eye is evil, your body also is full of darkness.
Luk 11:35  Therefore take heed that the light in you is not darkness.
Luk 11:36  Therefore if your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the shining of a lamp enlightens you.

1Jn 1:5  And this is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6  If we say that we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1Jn 1:7  But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Ray really knew what he was talking about when he said salt and light do not make noise.

You told your friend that you dont want to debate, so let your lamplight shine by not debating whether she likes it or not. Your lamplight through Christ IS your good works and not just what you say.

Sincerely hope this helps and encourages you, because you have helped me understand some things by your questions.

Peace, G.Driggs

[cjwood]

(It would be made so much easier if she would visit bible-truths.com, but she flatly refuses to go to "any other website that's contrary to my pastor's teachings". )[/u]

hi astrapho,
i highlighted the statement above, which your good friend has said to you, because it pretty much says it all.  she is blinded by the teachings of her pastor, rather than desiring to know the teachings of her Saviour.  bottom line is that she cannot force you to discuss or debate anything!  don't let her intimidate you because she continues to try to force her beliefs on you.  stand strong in the faith which God the Father has given to you.  He will not leave you.  EVER!

claudia

[Astrapho]

@Linny: She's a Oneness Pentecostal. You know, must be baptized in water, and  "speak in tongues" to be saved. I haven't done the baptizing part, so she's been pressing me all year. Made up lots of excuses...

@G. Driggs: Wow! That is great stuff. I didn't really give it much thought before you pointed them out, I think I understand it better now as well. The part that stuck out the most:

Mat 5:15  Nor do men light a lamp and put it under the grain-measure, but on a lampstand. And it gives light to all who are in the house.
Mat 5:16  Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father who is in Heaven.  

That's a world of pressure off my back. The better choice seems clear, I've decided to just not debate, and if possible, call off the little talk, because really, I'm not interested in her teachings. I pray and hope that her friendship is true and that we'll remain friends after this... (Her whole life revolves around her church. D: )

@Claudia: Yep, you got it, she intimidates me. D; But I guess I'll have nothing to fear if I just refuse to debate or anything. :9

Thanks everyone! I hope I'm not annoying anyone by asking so many little questions...  But as always, very valuable advice.

[Ninny]

Oh my gosh! Astrapho! The way your learn is by asking questions! Everyone has given you good words..and yes debating is not where it's at with your friend! You know you have our prayers..You don't need to debate! You just stand in what God has done for you! 
Kathy

[Astrapho]

Oh my gosh.

Okay I just met her just now anyway.

We didn't end up debating, but I showed her lots of verses that contradicted with what she's been taught (I've got a notebook full of 'em) about free will and "Oneness" (Jesus is the Father). They "made her more confused", and she told me that I had very twisted theology. I replied with, "But I didn't even say anything, only gave you some verses.". The talk ended off with us playing games on her laptop and a light hearted chat to a mutual friend over msn. She told me to go to her pastor, and that "he'll clear up any questions you've got". I said no thanks. And thus endeth the saga.

Thanks for any prayers you guys made. I didn't exactly say nothing, but... I thought it ended well.

[Deborah-Leigh]

How very diplomatic! Well done for not criticising her Astrapho. A worthy example in deed.

I am delighted that this ended in playing games on her laptop and a light hearted chat to a mutual friend. How lovely.

Arc

[rockrdude]

"But I didn't even say anything, only gave you some verses."

Brilliant! You couldn't have done any better. 

[Ninny]

Astrapho! Good going, girl! In the end..you did it just right! You just learned something..you don't have to be anything but yourself!! If someone loves you they will let you be you! I'm glad it worked out this way! 
Kathy

[Linny]

Wow, that was thinking on your feet! Great response. I am so happy it worked out. And I also am proud of you for holding your tongue after her comment. Your light shined for sure!
Lin

[cjwood]

here is a big virtual hug astrapho  .  i am so proud of you.  isn't it just amazing how our Father gives us the words to speak when He has purposed it! 

claudia

ps. i pray even now that your good friend's mind/heart will be filled with God's grace so that she can be shown, and see, the Truths that you have opened up to her.

[Astrapho]

@Ninny: Yeah, it was a great learning experience for me.

Anyway we didn't talk anymore on God and stuff after that... But we remain very good friends. (She's organizing a camp for her church and I'm helping her a li'l bit with the ideas.) Things are back to normal.

Thanks for the invaluable advice and support, guys!! God bless you all. I pray that God will open her eyes as well.

[Dave in Tenn]

"But I didn't even say anything, only gave you some verses."

Brilliant! You couldn't have done any better. 

All smiles here.