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Author Topic: Despising the Scriptures  (Read 5806 times)

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myms

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Despising the Scriptures
« on: November 21, 2009, 01:36:10 AM »

Ray said in his recent talks: 'COMMENT: The spiritual sperm did not descend from heaven, but rather, the SON OF MAN descended from heaven. Do you believe these Scriptures or do you despise these Scriptures?'

Is Ray just affirming the point that Jesus pre-existed with His Father? Or is he also intimating that the conception of Jesus within Mary did not involve a spiritual sperm joining with an egg from Mary?
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mharrell08

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2009, 10:44:53 AM »

Ray said in his recent talks: 'COMMENT: The spiritual sperm did not descend from heaven, but rather, the SON OF MAN descended from heaven. Do you believe these Scriptures or do you despise these Scriptures?'

Is Ray just affirming the point that Jesus pre-existed with His Father? Or is he also intimating that the conception of Jesus within Mary did not involve a spiritual sperm joining with an egg from Mary?


Both I believe...you can email him if you'd like.


Marques
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myms

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2009, 10:53:56 AM »

Will do - just don't like bothering him!
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AK4

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2009, 05:42:47 PM »

Ray said in his recent talks: 'COMMENT: The spiritual sperm did not descend from heaven, but rather, the SON OF MAN descended from heaven. Do you believe these Scriptures or do you despise these Scriptures?'

Is Ray just affirming the point that Jesus pre-existed with His Father? Or is he also intimating that the conception of Jesus within Mary did not involve a spiritual sperm joining with an egg from Mary?


Hi Myms

Ray is stating that the scriptures say: Jesus did pre-exist before His earthly ministry but He did not pre-exist eternally.  The key word there is eternally.  Jesus is the beginning of God (the Father, who no one can see or hear) creation.  Then the Father through Jesus started creating everything else.

Jesus Himself was sent into Mary, not a sperm.

In Jesus

Anthony
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myms

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2009, 03:52:51 AM »

Hi Anthony
Thank you for your response ... you said:
'Ray is stating that the scriptures say: Jesus did pre-exist before His earthly ministry but He did not pre-exist eternally.  The key word there is eternally.  Jesus is the beginning of God (the Father, who no one can see or hear) creation.  Then the Father through Jesus started creating everything else.'

I have believed this for a long time now. My question was more about his conception. Ray said that Jesus came from Heaven, not a sperm, so I was curious to know whether Ray also believes that Mary's egg was not involved in the conception. That, if you like, Jesus was supernaturally 'implanted' as a foetus within Mary and she was chosen to nurture Him until His birth.

Its possibly not that important, it was just Ray's comment sparked off the question in my head which I'd never considered before. I have posed the question to Ray as suggested above, but as yet have not had a response and don't really expect one, Ray has far too much on his plate.

Myms
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Marky Mark

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2009, 11:26:49 AM »

Quote
Ray said that Jesus came from Heaven, not a sperm, so I was curious to know whether Ray also believes that Mary's egg was not involved in the conception.


Myms,this is a general statement, so please take no offense.

It never ceases to amaze me how someone has to put the physical ahead of the Spiritual. Why do we in our own small and weak minds think that the Creator of everything that has ever come into existence cannot do what ever He wants or needs. I don't understand why we have to question who and what God is. Without Him, we are nothing. I think to question our Fathers ways is a weak attempt at putting ones self on that carnal throne that we are all to familiar with.

Philippians 2:5
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Proverbs 14:12
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

1 Peter 2:11
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

Philippians 4:8
 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.


Peace...Mark
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aqrinc

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2009, 02:18:23 PM »


Whatever we have in mind most of the time; on any subject, that is where we have our treasures stored. There is so much of Scripture that most of us only have the slightest understanding; and that is Scripture that is explained several times in Bibles.

One would do well to pay attention when things of the flesh, carnal thoughts; take up most of their Scripture study time.

Some verses below that prompts this message.


1Sa 2:6-10 (GNB)
6  The LORD kills and restores to life; he sends people to the world of the dead and brings them back again.
7  He makes some people poor and others rich; he humbles some and makes others great.

8  He lifts the poor from the dust and raises the needy from their misery. He makes them companions of princes and puts them in places of honor. The foundations of the earth belong to the LORD; on them he has built the world.

9  "He protects the lives of his faithful people, but the wicked disappear in darkness; a man does not triumph by his own strength.

10  The LORD's enemies will be destroyed; he will thunder against them from heaven. The LORD will judge the whole world; he will give power to his king, he will make his chosen king victorious."


Jer 17:9 (MKJV) 
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?

Joh 6:62-63(Lamsa NT)
62 What then if you should see the Son of man ascending to the place where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that gives life; the body is of no account; the words which I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Rom 8:5-13 (Lamsa NT)
5 For they who are after the flesh, do mind the things of the flesh; but they who are after the Spirit, do mind the things of the Spirit.

6 To be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace;
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, because it cannot be.
8 So then, they who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit if the Spirit of God truly dwells within you. Now if any man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.
10 And if Christ is within you, the body is dead because of sin: but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 And if the Spirit of Him who raised our LORD Jesus Christ from the dead dwells within you, so he who raised Jesus Christ from the dead will also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells within you.

12 Therefore, my brethren, we are not indebted to the flesh to live after the flesh.
13 For if you live after the flesh, you will die: but if you, through the Spirit, subdue the deeds of the body, you shall live.
Rom 8:14 Those who are led by the Spirit of God, are the sons of God.

george. :)

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AK4

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2009, 05:27:17 PM »

Hi Anthony
Thank you for your response ... you said:
'Ray is stating that the scriptures say: Jesus did pre-exist before His earthly ministry but He did not pre-exist eternally.  The key word there is eternally.  Jesus is the beginning of God (the Father, who no one can see or hear) creation.  Then the Father through Jesus started creating everything else.'

I have believed this for a long time now. My question was more about his conception. Ray said that Jesus came from Heaven, not a sperm, so I was curious to know whether Ray also believes that Mary's egg was not involved in the conception. That, if you like, Jesus was supernaturally 'implanted' as a foetus within Mary and she was chosen to nurture Him until His birth.

Its possibly not that important, it was just Ray's comment sparked off the question in my head which I'd never considered before. I have posed the question to Ray as suggested above, but as yet have not had a response and don't really expect one, Ray has far too much on his plate.

Myms

All we really have is that "He emptied Himself"(Phil 2:7) and we are not really told how or anything else.  If you think on it Jesus is able to appear as anything He wanted i.e. a burning bush.   From mans point of view He was still born from Mary to make Him apart of the Judah line.  Whether by fetus or sperm once He came out of the birth canal, from mans view He was from Mary.  But WE know His origin is from God.

We know sperm carries DNA and only has half of whats needed to make a baby.  Jesus already existed and had all that was needed for life.  He couldnt have needed anything from mary except a womb.  The only thing He didnt have is what He emptied from Himself, so I dont see why her eggs would be needed.  Yeah her womb, but not her eggs.

Jesus was still called a man after His resurrection and in the OT, the Angel of the Lord was called a man.  I just read over it somewhere in the gospels something that could show Christ was a called a man before He appeared on earth.  I cant remember where though and i may be wrong so dont quote on that last one.  To me I dont see any reason for Christ to have to come as a sperm.

Just my opinion,

In Jesus,

Anthony
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myms

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2009, 12:51:48 AM »

Thank you Anthony for taking my question seriously, for not judging me for asking it, and for giving a really helpful and thoughtful answer.

Myms  :)
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AK4

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2009, 04:40:28 PM »

Thank you Anthony for taking my question seriously, for not judging me for asking it, and for giving a really helpful and thoughtful answer.

Myms  :)

Anytime.  There are many things that God puts into my mind, even the minutest (is that a word?) seemingly unimportant things, yet i am compelled by God to find the answer or that He gives me some kind of understanding on it.  Its amazing really because i did ponder that question awhile back and had an answer but i forgot about it and i think this one willl stick with.

Thanks be to God

In Jesus

Anthony

Also i wanted to add---its even the smallest little things that brings, at least me joy, when God shows me a truth.  Its wonderful to me.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 04:46:38 PM by AK4 »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2009, 05:16:18 PM »



2 John 3 There shall be with you grace, kindness, peace, from GOD THE FATHER AND from the Lord Jesus Christ, THE SON OF THE FATHER, in truth and love.

1 John 4;9..... God sent His only begotten Son into the world....(not His only begotten sperm! :D)


Arc
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OBrenda

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2009, 01:17:37 AM »

Anthony & "M",

I also have these tiny questions that occur to me, that's how I came to find BT.
It's very fascinating finding out just "Who and What Jesus Is" Ray has brought back the wonder of my childhood,
that Babylon humanized and distorted!

YSIC,
Brenda
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Akira329

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2009, 12:36:52 AM »

We may know the who, what, when, where, and even why but sometimes we want to know HOW!
Pro 16:16  How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver!

Antaiwan
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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

myms

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2009, 08:02:33 AM »

Thank you for your posts. If we're honest I think we all have these 'tiny' questions as we delve deeper into the things of God. The important thing is to keep delving!! It is an exciting journey that we are all on, moving closer & closer to an awesome, glorious, loving Father, and then looking over our shoulder and seeing His hand on our life and the changes He's made to make us more like Him. In the words of the old hymn: The things of earth DO grow strangely dim in the light of His Glory and Grace!

Myms
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soberxp

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2009, 09:18:08 AM »

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10924.0.html

you should read this,my Testimony,No Doubt,please.
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cjwood

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2009, 07:31:43 PM »

We may know the who, what, when, where, and even why but sometimes we want to know HOW!
Pro 16:16  How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver!




antaiwan,
such a true statement!  and, the scripture you posted caused me to meditate on; does the section i posted in blue, say 'how much better is it rather to choose to get understanding, than to get silver'?  at first i thought it was saying 'it is better to get the understanding towards being chosen, rather than getting silver'.  maybe someone can help me with clarification on this.  

thanks bunches antaiwan, and to anyone who may help my understanding.

claudia
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 03:08:56 AM by cjwood »
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Phil3:10

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2009, 08:10:05 PM »

Myms,
   I do think our LORD is happy for us to be asking questions which may concern HIS plans, HIS Gospel and HIS kingdom. It is by asking, seeking and knocking that we can come to know HIM who is worth knowing more than anything. To me, GOD is wisdom, knowledge and all power. HE is everything since HE created and continues to create everything. We will never get all the answers but the questions, doubts, and seeking HIS truths is what we need to really know who HE is. Anthony gave you a wonderful answer and all contributors to this post have been helpful.
   I sometimes try to understand GOD and HIS SON from a carnal point of view. However, I always move very quickly toward a spiritual seeking and HE always brings me a time of true blessing and fulfillment. Proverbs 16:16 along with all of Proverbs 8 and 9 and especially Proverbs 8:11 reinforces my belief that GOD is all wisdom and that seeking wisdom is better than gold, silver, rubies, or anything else. Proverbs 8:17 says it all, " I love them that love ME, and those that seek me early shall find me. How can we gain wisdom without asking questions?
   The Babylonian church does not want us to seek the wisdom of GOD, but to accept their traditions of man.  If we all would just exercise that 90% of the brain that we fail to use can we just imagine the amount of wisdom and knowledge available.  From my point of view I did not have a clue about our GOD until I started asking the hard questions and Babylon had no answers. Continue to meditate on your questions and concerns and in HIS time our GOD will reveal what you are able to discern.
In HIM,
Phil3:10
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Marky Mark

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2009, 08:50:24 PM »

Quote
antaiwan,
such a true statement!  and, the scripture you posted caused me to meditate on; does the section i posted in blue, say 'how much better is it to rather choose to get understanding than to get silver'?  at first i thought it was saying 'it is better to get the understanding towards being chosen, rather than getting silver'.  maybe someone can help me with clarification on this. 

thanks bunches antaiwan, and to anyone who may help my understanding.

claudia



claudia,here are a few different translations.


Pro 16:16

(GW)  How much better it is to gain wisdom than gold, and the gaining of understanding should be chosen over silver.

(BBE)  How much better it is to get wisdom than gold! and to get knowledge is more to be desired than silver.

(GNB)  It is better---much better---to have wisdom and knowledge than gold and silver.

(LITV)  How much better to get wisdom than gold! And to get understanding is to be chosen above silver.



Peace...Mark
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Akira329

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2009, 11:31:10 PM »

Quote
antaiwan,
such a true statement!  and, the scripture you posted caused me to meditate on; does the section i posted in blue, say 'how much better is it to rather choose to get understanding than to get silver'?  at first i thought it was saying 'it is better to get the understanding towards being chosen, rather than getting silver'.  maybe someone can help me with clarification on this. 

thanks bunches antaiwan, and to anyone who may help my understanding.

claudia



claudia,here are a few different translations.


Pro 16:16

(GW)  How much better it is to gain wisdom than gold, and the gaining of understanding should be chosen over silver.

(BBE)  How much better it is to get wisdom than gold! and to get knowledge is more to be desired than silver.

(GNB)  It is better---much better---to have wisdom and knowledge than gold and silver.

(LITV)  How much better to get wisdom than gold! And to get understanding is to be chosen above silver.



Peace...Mark

Hey Claudia,
Mark posted some great translations!
Here is more:
(CLV) Pro 16:16 To acquire wisdom, how much better than fine gold, And to acquire understanding, more to be chosen than silver!"
(ASV) Pro 16:16  How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! Yea, to get understanding is rather to be chosen than silver.

Understanding is important!
Hope this helps
Antaiwan
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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

cjwood

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Re: Despising the Scriptures
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2009, 03:14:39 AM »

mark & antaiwan,
thank you both for helping me with understanding this scripture, by showing it in different translations. 

claudia
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