> General Discussions
Luke,Matthew,and the virgin birth
ciy:
Interesting that John the Baptist was also of the lineage of David. His mother and father had never had a child before like Abraham and Sarah. I guess he could be called another virgin birth since he was the first and it was a miracle birth. And his mother Elizabeth was either the 2nd or 1st to receive the Holy Ghost in the NT.
It is also interesting that all men through John would believe. He said there is one that stands among you which you do not know. Was that the new man in him? In Matthew chap 3 it appears John and Jesus baptised each other. Some of this in John chap 1 and Luke chap 1 is a little puzzling. Maybe we have to get rid of that veil of flesh in order to see the hidden truth.
There are pearls hidden everywhere and we are promised that we will not find God in this life unless we seek for him with all of our heart.
ciy
mercie:
--- Quote from: shibboleth ---Unless you have some concrete proof that Matthew and Luke are corrupt, I will keep on believing in a LITERAL virgin birth of Jesus. I don't think the accounts are pretty straight forward.
1.Mary was engaged, not married, to Joseph
2.Mary and Joseph had not had sex. ( Before they came together )
3.Joseph knew he wasn't the father of the babe because he wanted to protect Mary from public disgrace. If it was his babe, he would have married her.
4.An angel told Joseph the Holy Ghost would impregnate Mary.
As I said before, I don't know what I'm missing. Even if there is another spiritual meaning, that doesn't negate the truth about the physical aspect of this scripture.
--- End quote ---
Does anyone have Concrete Proof the scriptures are what they are and why we are to Believe them.
Can not offer you that, ones has to respect where Each of us are In the Understanding of the Scriptures be it literally or Spiritually.
Or else we fall out.
Ray and Mike have been a Lesson for us all.
jennifer:
Alchemist,
To dispute the virgin birth means you either do not understand what the holy spirit is or do not accept the fact that literal physical relations between a man and woman produce offspring that are sinful.
One of the prophesies concerning Jesus in the OT states he would be sinless and without guile: Isa. 53:9. The fulfillment of this statement is repeated in 1 Pet. 2:22. Are you now suggesting that 1 Pet. 2:22 should also be questioned?
The Hebrew word almah is Isa. 7:14 means "a young woman" and in the context of the Tanakh always "a young woman of unsullied reputation", which is why the Jewish translators of the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Tanakh, prepared 200 years before Jesus' birth, rendered this word into Greek as parthenos, "virgin"; this is the word used in Matt. 1:23.
Looking at this another way, the OT speaks of Jesus as having eternal existence: Mic. 5:1(2). The fulfillment of this statement can be seen in John 1:1,14, and John 8:58, Eph. 1:3-4, Col. 1:15-19, and Rev. 1:18.
Again, the OT states Jesus would be the Son of God: Ps. 2:7, & Prov. 30:4. This fulfillment is stated in Matt. 3:17, and Luke 1:32. Are you now going to also dispute the Psalms and Proverb prophesies?
Finally, how do you conclude that the entire gospel of Luke & Matthew are corrupt and not inspired by God. Can you give some examples? I'm sure that if you searched diligently you would find there to be witnesses to back up every statement made in these two gospels.
In conclusion, it really boils down to 1 John 5:9- If we accept human witness, God's witness is stronger, because it is the witness which God has given about his Son.
Grace be with you.
alchemist:
Gone for a few minutes and I seem to be attacked all over the place.A cloak and dagger thing come on I like your post Joe.And shiboleth do you have proof that the gospel of peter or thomas are not true?And as for stringing you people along,kind of,I couldn't just come out and say everything I knew otherwise you wouldn't have listen to me.
Come on everybody(maybe everybody)when you first read what I said you thought I was crazy but as it went along it made you start to wonder didn't you?
Maybe it was a bad idea to come back here.
longhorn:
alchemist, Did you smoke alot of pot back in the 70's?
Longhorn
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