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Author Topic: Ray's audio/visual conference tape  (Read 1361 times)

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gallenwalsh

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Ray's audio/visual conference tape
« on: December 13, 2009, 10:20:13 AM »

I was listening to one of Rays audio/visual conference tapes and he was speaking in regards to the present day preaching of the lake of fire being a literal  place  and some professing Christians wanting others to burn in it and how blasphemous it is.Then he touched on the subject of what punishment those beliefs ( or people wanting to see those things happen believing them to be just) will be getting. But he never, at least in that tape, ever spoke of what he thought their punishment would actually be, but he thought it was perfect. Can any one tell me what that was ? Or where to go to find out ? It was right at the end of the tape.
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mharrell08

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Re: Ray's audio/visual conference tape
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2009, 11:26:46 AM »

I was listening to one of Rays audio/visual conference tapes and he was speaking in regards to the present day preaching of the lake of fire being a literal  place  and some professing Christians wanting others to burn in it and how blasphemous it is.Then he touched on the subject of what punishment those beliefs ( or people wanting to see those things happen believing them to be just) will be getting. But he never, at least in that tape, ever spoke of what he thought their punishment would actually be, but he thought it was perfect. Can any one tell me what that was ? Or where to go to find out ? It was right at the end of the tape.

Hello Gallenwalsh,

Jesus himself touched on that in the parables:

Matt 21:28-32  But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.


Luke 13:22-29  Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.


The preachers and theologians of the world teach that others will be judged with great wrath & indignation when it shall be them judged severely. Those not in the 1st resurrection are in the resurrection of the unjust, raised to shame or contempt [Dan 12:2].


Marques
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Kat

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Re: Ray's audio/visual conference tape
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2009, 12:27:46 PM »


Hi gallenwalsh,

Here are a few places where Ray teaches about the Lake of Fire judgment.

http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html --------------------------

THE "LAKE OF FIRE-SECOND DEATH" IS NOT TANGIBLE OR MATERIAL OR LITERAL, BUT RATHER IS AN INVISIBLE POWER! THE LAKE OF FIRE IS SPIRITUAL!

Thatís right: the lake of fire is spiritual and therefore invisible. No one will ever SEE the lake of fire; just as no one will ever SEE Godís Spirit; and just as no one will ever SEE Godís "consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29). But make no mistake about it; the lake of fire is REAL, and it is very HOT, and it BURNS things, and its effects are ETERNALóall, of course, SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING.

We need also to understand that not everything that is "spiritual" is holy and good. There is also "spiritual wickedness" (Eph. 6:12). Many believe that the impartation of "immortality" and "incorruption" automatically impart holiness and perfection as well. This is obviously not true, as there is much "spiritual wickedness" in high places among those who do possess incorruption and immortality. We must understand that something "spiritual" can also be extremely wicked, as this has much to do with the purpose and function of the lake of fire. Not only is the lake of fire itself "spiritual," but, everything that is thrown into the lake of fire is either spiritual or at least inanimate or intangible (as with "hades and death").

Okay, fine; the lake of fire is spiritual, but what about these questions: Who are thrown into it? When is it? Where is it? Why is it? What does it accomplish? How long will it burn, and how can you escape it? Now I could answer all those in one sentence, but it wouldnít be very detailed, and I am sure you would want to know more.

I think most of my readers by now realize that I donít believe for one second that the lake of fire is some hellhole of real fire that burns and tortures human flesh for all eternity. So we will now concentrate on just what the lake of fire is, what it accomplishes, for whom, and how long will it take.

To do this we must follow Godís four keys to understand spiritual things. God has provided these Scriptural keys so that the wise can and will understand His Word. We need to compare this SPIRITUAL lake of fire with something else SPIRITUAL that will tell us exactly what it is and what it does, to whom, and for how long. Is there such a spiritual Scripture in the Bible that matches the spiritual lake of fire? Yes, there is. There is but one other section of Scripture that fits that of the lake of fire and actually tells us what happens there.


http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html --------------------------------

The Bible does use water as a symbol of washing away our dirty sins. However, giant spiritual character flaws need more than washing, they need to be obliterated if they are "wood, straw, and stubble." And even the "gold, silver, and precious stones" need to be purged and purified if they are to be perfected.

One cannot wash away the impurities of the carnal mind any more than one can wash away the impurities in gold ore by water. It takes power, and heat, and the molecular separating qualities of fire to purify gold ore. And likewise, water has little effect on eliminating wood, straw, and stubble. But put fire to this same wood, straw, and stubble, and it will be obliterated, annihilated, eradicated, and exterminated.

This is the lesson we are to learn from Godís spiritual fire. Spiritual fire will purify good qualities to total perfection but will obliterate character flaws to total extinction. And so it is that God uses spiritual fire to produce the greatest possible good, not to cause the severest possible pain and torture.


http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm -----------------------

When Jesus returns to this earth in glory with His holy angels (Matt. 25:31), He will come with great power to JUDGE (Rev. 19:11), and those who oppose Him will be thrown into "a lake of fire" (Verse 20). Satan also is cast into this "lake of fire" (Rev. 20:10), and "death and hell/hades" is cast into this "lake of fire" (Verse 14).

Now then, what fire does Jesus say he will use for His judgment on the goats and on the Devil and his messengers? It is "everlasting/eonian/age-abiding fire" (Matt. 25:41). Once more we have clear Scriptural proof that all these descriptions of fiery Judgment are the very same fire, and that Fire is GOD:

"For our God is A CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

Gehenna fire is the furnace of fire, the unquenchable fire, the everlasting [Gk; eonian/age-abiding] fire, and the lake of fire, as we just saw proven by Scripture.

And this fire by five names is God's Judgment:

upon His disciples (Matt. 5:22, 29, 30)

upon the Pharisees (Matt. 23:33)

upon the chaff (Matt. 3:12)

upon the spiritual goats (Matt. 25:32 & 41)

upon trees which bear no good fruit (Matt. 7:19)

upon the spiritual tares (Matt. 13:40)

upon all the WICKED (Matt. 13:49-50)

All these five "fires" are the same one fire, and this fire is the "Consuming Fire" of God that JUDGES BOTH US AND THE WORLD. And it is clearly stated that "The lake of fire IS the second death" (Rev. 20:14 & 21:08). The lake of fire is JUDGMENT, and the lake of fire is the second death. Therefore: the SECOND death IS GOD'S JUDGEMENTS UPON BOTH THE WICKED AND THE ELECT!

There is to be judgment upon the wicked and judgment upon God's Elect of The House of God. And both of these groups are judged by the spiritual fire of God Almighty, "For our God IS a consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29).

FIRE & JUDGMENT on God's Elect:

"That the trial of your faith [God's Elect], being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ... judgment must begin at the house of God" (I Pet. 1:7 & 4:17).

FIRE & JUDGMENT on the UNGODLY:

"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men" (II Pet. 3:7).

Revelation shows us that the "lake of fire" is where all humanity will be "judged" (Rev. 20:13), and this lake of fire is the SECOND death:

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the SECOND death" (Rev. 20:14)

and

 "the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the SECOND death" (Rev. 21:08).

 
THE SECOND DEATH

It's time for another one of those enigmatic Scriptures that sound very simple, but are difficult to harmonize with all Scriptures compare "spiritual with spiritual" and believe Jesus when He tells us that His "words ARE spirit" (John 6:63). Here is that enigmatic statement:

"And as it is appointed unto men [Gk: 'anthropose'--human, mankind] once to die, but after this the judgment"

This Scripture is all-encompassing, universal, and applies to every human who has ever lived. All humanity must die once, and after that death, they must be judged. There are no exceptions, not even for mentally challenged, teens, youngsters and even infants. (Do sound-minded Christians really believe that when babies die they go to heaven and therefore, there will be millions of eternal babies [in diapers?] living in heaven for all eternity AS BABIES?) God has a way to deal with babies and infants in the Day of Judgment that will be quite equitable -- they will grow up to be adults.

The Chosen Elect are judged now in this Church age (I Cor. 11:31), while the unrepentant, unbelieving, mentally challenged, infants, and all other such categories, are judged in the resurrection to Judgment (I Cor. 11:32)--"In that day," as the Scriptures mention so many times. The reason I don't put infants and such in the category of the wicked every time I mention the wicked and judgment, is because there are few places that mention babies in a Judgment setting, but there are some, but they are not judged as are the wicked. They will be judged for their carnality when it shows itself, as they mature.

"Because he hath appointed a day [called that day and the Day of the Lord in many prophesies], in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that Man Whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead" (Acts 17:31).


http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html ------------------

When God purges the hearts and minds of the wicked with His all-consuming spiritual fire, they will be UTTERLY ASHAMED! Notice what God says in Revelation 14:10 regarding anyone who is a part of this one world religious system:

"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God [seeing that "For ALL nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of HER fornicationÖ" Rev. 18:3], which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented [UTTERLY ASHAMEDóspiritual and mental torment] with the fire and brimstone [God DIVINE spiritual fire] in the presence of the holy angels, and in THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB" (Rev. 14:10).

They are going to have to face their sins and wickedness and hypocrisy, NOT in the presence of GOD ALMIGHTY, but in the presence of "the LAMB!" How embarrassing and shameful it will be for all those being purged in the Godís spiritual consuming lake of fire to see and acknowledge their whole life of sin in the very presence of the Lamb of God Who DIED FOR THEM! Every heart in the universe will melt like snow in a furnace when they face the LAMB OF GOD in their judgment!

in the second resurrection, at the white throne judgment, in the lake of fire. The lake of divine spiritual fire will bring salvation to ALL THE NATIONS! "Öbut he himself [whomever of the billions of people purged in Godís spiritual fire] shall be SAVED; yet so as BY [Godís spiritual consuming] FIRE"! (I Cor. 3:15).

Remember that there are two administrations of Godís purging fire: The first is on the House of God consisting of those whom God is calling to be overcomers and sons of God. The second will be at the second resurrection and white throne judgment in the lake of Godís divine purging fire. All the children of the bondwoman, the Old Covenant, the Mother Whore with her harlot daughters, will one day be the children of Heavenly Jerusalem Above, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL!

God truly is NOT A RESPECTER OF PERSONS. GOD IS ABLE TO BRING ANY PERSON TO REPENTANCE. How could anyone deny it? There is no such thing as a person being so evil that he cannot be converted by the spirit of God. But God has a timetable, and He will follow that timetable. There is great wisdom in what God does and how He does it and when He does it and to whom He does.

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mercy, peace and love
Kat

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gmik

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Re: Ray's audio/visual conference tape
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2009, 01:25:15 PM »

Thanks for a great refresher course!!
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