Romans 5:19?

[Lupac]

Okay, here's what the verse says according to YLT:

for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous.

Here's my question, why does it say "the many" instead of "all" like in 1 Timothy? I've asked this question before, on an other forum, but I didn't get a very good answer. Also, a couple of verses back Paul calls grace a "free gift" and a lot of Babylon has twisted that into "you have to accept it. (Of your own free will.)" Which is totally unscriptural, but why is it called a gift? Thanks.

[arion]

Because it's two different words in the Greek.  In 1 Tim 2:4 the word translated 'all' is the word 'pas' (strongs 3956) whereas in Romans 5:19 the word translated many is the word 'polus' (strongs 4183) so there are two different words used here.

However the meaning of Romans 5:19 is pretty clear.  Ask any Christian about the verse...

Rom 5:19  For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

They will almost all tell you that the first useage of the word 'many' means all because we know that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  Yet if you ask them about the second 'many' they will tell you that it doesn't mean all.  Yet in the context of the verse here if all were made sinners then all are going to be made righteous.  Same word translated 'many' yet the change the meaning in the middle of the verse from everyone to not everyone.  See the difference?  Neither do I.  

[Lupac]

Yeah, I know about the greek words. I meant, why didn't Paul just say "all" instead of "many"? But that sentence from Ray pretty much sums it up. Thanks.

[Kat]

Hi Lupac,

There is a Bible study 'Does All Mean All?' I think it would be a great help to understand the meaning of 'all' in the Scriptures.
transcript
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5605.0.html
Audio
http://bible-truths.com/audio/09-02-07 Part 1.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/09-02-07 Part 2.mp3

Also, a couple of verses back Paul calls grace a "free gift" and a lot of Babylon has twisted that into "you have to accept it. (Of your own free will.)" Which is totally unscriptural, but why is it called a gift? Thanks.

Here is an excerpt from the Bible study 'Saved By Grace thru Faith' that should help a bit.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5417.0.html ---

Grace is a gift, you don't have it.  Now this is something you can't conjure up, it's a gift of God.  It's always the grace OF God, it comes from God, there is nothing you can do.  You say, 'well what about the faith we've got, that comes from us.'  No no no, it says in Eph 2: 8-10 "... faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELF, it is the gift of God;" 

The faith it's a gift, the grace it's all a gift, everything is a gift.  It's all a gift of God.  It's all faith, it's all grace, they are all one thing.  Grace causes you to live rightly.  What does faith do?  If you believe God, you do what He says.  It is virtually the same thing.
v
v
We are saved by grace.  It's free, gratuitous gift from God, but it does something.  It teaches - it chastens - it educates - it is divine influence upon the seat of our emotions - thinking - plans - purpose - goals - aspirations and everything else.  It divinely influences that heart, you can't help it, it does it. 

This just smacks free will right in the teeth.  According to true free will, God can't make you do anything, you have to choose it on your own.  How can you choose to do good unless God divinely influences your heart?  You see, you can't.  But the second you say He does, you've taken away man's free will.  Now God is doing it.  What an evil contradiction this thing of free will and free choices is.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Lupac]

Thanks Kat. I wish I could be as sure about every thing, all of this, as you are. I will read those transcripts. I'm on the last part of the LoF series. The one about Hades, then, I'm going to read them all over again.

[jerreye]

Hi Lupac,

The phrase "THE many" (Gk: "hoi polloi") changes the meaning quite a bit. It isn't that "many" sinners will be made righteous, while the "rest" will not. Paul is talking about "THE many" spoken of in direct context. Who is in direct context here? ALL SINNERS. This includes you! We ALL, including yourself, will be made righteous

Hope that helps a bit.
Jeremy

[Kat]

Hi Lupac,

You are doing the right things to get yourself grounded in these truths, read read read.  But it takes time for all of this to sink in.  I know all of these new found truths that you are learning on your first read through the LoF, well this understanding you now have, so when you read through again you will add so much more that you could not comprend the first time. 

Isa 28:10  For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,
       Line upon line, line upon line,
       Here a little, there a little."

And when you have laid a solid foundation by studying what Ray writes you will begin to see the Scriptures open up too.  When you read in the Scriptures it will not be so confusing when you understand the basics.  But it does take time for this to develop, so just keep reading and praying that God will continue to give you the desire for His truth.

Mat 5:6  Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
          For they shall be filled.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Vangie]

Thanks Kat.  Good advice for "many" of us!    Thanks for bringing these questions up, Lupac.  You are helping to edify us oldies, too! 

[cjwood]

I wish I could be as sure about every thing, all of this, as you are.

lupac,
your statement about your wish, caused me to google (bing) the definition of 'wish'.  the 1st one that came up on the list, confirmed that 'wish' was a strong desire, want something, express desire.

we all start out wishing, and learn that wishing turns into faith, as your hope continues.  be encouraged that your strong desire for assurance; that yearning for a certainty, a promise, confidence in what you are reading and trying to understand as being the Truth, all have been given and confirmed in Jesus Christ, our Saviour.

claudia