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Author Topic: Is Jesus God?  (Read 3458 times)

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Dennis Vogel

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Is Jesus God?
« on: March 20, 2006, 01:32:13 AM »

Hi Ray:

Just read your long but splendid article on, "Origin of Endless Punishment". This is in my opinion, a very accurate account of the process of how we got so paganized. Even though we both agree that it was God who caused it all to unfold as it did, Eph. 1:11. I copied a section of your paper and pasted it to my letter to confirm that I agree with this account of Jesus' death. And to affirm as you explain, that death is death. Death is not alive again in some other form, like the immortality of the soul belief a totally insane understanding of the Holy Texts and leads to all sorts of concepts like burning in a hell fire for all eternity etc. This is just plain stupid!

Now to my question, if I may. If Jesus is God,YAHWEH the creator of the universe, and that would surely qualify Him to Be an Almighty God. How would He be able to die for our sins, when He was immortal? - I Tim.6:16. Is it not true that if a being is immortal that being cannot die, and if HE could, "Empty Himself" Phil.2:7 - of life and die, would not that be a flat out contradiction? We definitely believe that Christ died for our sins, I Jn.4:3; 2 Jn. 7 in the flesh. With this understanding in mind of what it is to be dead, not in the heathen sense of what death is, Jer. 10:2 - De. 12:30, which is not death at all. Please explain to me if you would not only the above question of how an immortal being can die for our sins. But if Jesus is GOD{YAHWEH} what was left over of His pre -existence soul to enter into Jesus Christ at His physical birth to Mary if God who is spirit died prior to entering into the Messiah? If death is a reality, how could the pre -existent soul of God enter into the Messiah at His physical birth to Mary if God{YAHWEH} DIED before the physical begettal of Christ. How then could Jesus be affected by a dead god in His life? Was Christ both man and God at the SAME TIME if the remaining soul that entered into Christ was Dead? And also the idea that Jesus is God is so popular among all the churches in its various forms, some believe it as a function of the trinity or binity, some believe like the JWs that The Father created God{Jesus} to assist Him in the creation but on what ever the level it is that we are discussing here is that they all believe that Jesus pre - existed and most believe He is God. How could this be? Is the popularity of this belief unsettling as is the logic to you, Ray?

I concur with all of your beliefs and all your articles, this is not false humility it is the sincere truth. You are providing a valuable service to mankind. But I disagree with your position of a pre - existent Messiah. Hope to hear from you. I could give you a big hug for all the truth you write about, we have a lot in common. Thank you.

John ...


Dear John:

With all due respect, your questions are no different from those who ask how is it possible for Jesus to walk on water? raise the dead? feed thousands with a few loaves of bread?  How could there be a "virgin" birth in the first place (forget for the moment who it is that is being born to this virgin). How could God create the stars when there was NO MATERIAL to make anything.

You assume that Jesus had to DIE before He could be conceived in Mary. It doesn't say any such thing, so I don't assume it. Darkness is the absence of light, and yet God said that He created darkness (Isa. 45:7).  Basically you are asking "HOW can God perform MIRACLES?"  That really is the heart and core of your question--think about it.  Obviously God can't die, that is why it was necessary for Jesus to "empty" Himself of His prior glories. But then you will ask: "But just how did He do that?"  There are billions and billions of things that God has not yet told us, John.

God be with you,

Ray




Ray says,

SO WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

"It means that virtually everything about Christendom—from its name ‘Church,’ to the architecture of their buildings, to the origin of their holy days and doctrines, is all straight out of heathenism, of which God Almighty declares:

"LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN… inquire NOT after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? Even so WILL I DO LIKEWISE" (Jer. 10:2 & Deut. 12:30).

All Christian doctrines that are not out of paganism are nonetheless, unscriptural. Many Christians today call themselves "Fundamentalists." How "fundamentally" wrong can one be when he does not even believe that Jesus Christ even DIED for his sins? You say, "Oh, but Fundamentalists DO believe that Christ died for their sins. Oh really? And do they believe that he was "dead?" No, of course not. They believe that only his body died, therefore making Christ a liar and making the Saviour of the world, a cadaver! The Scriptural truth is: "…Christ DIED for our sins according to the Scriptures" (I Cor. 15:3).

But was Christ "dead" when He "died?" Fundamentalists say, "NO." They say that he was never in the tomb for three days; they say that He went to hell for three days; they say that we was preaching to IMMORTAL SOULS for three days. But here is what the Scriptures say:

"Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of Man be risen again FROM THE DEAD" (Matt. 17:9).

"And go quickly, and tell His disciples that He is risen FROM THE DEAD" (Matt. 28:7).

"Thus it was written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer and to rise FROM THE DEAD the third day" (Luke 24:46).

"This is now the third time that Jesus showed Himself to His disciples, after that He was risen FROM THE DEAD" (John 21:14).

"And killed the Prince of life [yes, but was He DEAD?] whom God has raised FROM THE DEAD…" (Acts 3:15).

"For if the DEAD rise not [Van Impe says once we are born, we NEVER DIE, so how can anyone be raised from the dead if they don’t die?], then is NOT CHRIST RAISED: And if Chris be not raised, your faith is vain, YE ARE YET IN YOUR SINS" (I Cor. 15:16-17).

Now then, were was Jesus all the while He was "dead?" I heard one of the biggest names in televangelism say recently that Jesus was being tortured in some hellhole for three days. Of course most Christians believe he was in a safer section of this hellhole. But then others believe He was in heaven with the thief crucified beside Him. Never mind the fact that after His resurrection Jesus told Mary that He had not even yet ascended to His Father. Is nothing they teach, Scriptural? No, nothing.

Either Jesus was dead or we don’t have a Saviour. Jesus could not be raised from the dead if He wasn’t dead in the first place.

"And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. HE [not His body, but ‘He’ Jesus Himself] is not here: for HE is risen as He said, Come and see the place where THE LORD [the LORD, not the Lord’s body; not the Lord’s cadaver, but the LORD HIMSELF] lay. And go quickly, and tell His disciples that He is risen FROM THE DEAD…" (Matt. 28:5-7).

I mean just how easy can this believing the Scriptures be compared to believing the lies and unscriptural heresies of the Church? Just read it an believe.

So, how important is the resurrection "from the DEAD" to Fundamental belief? It is totally useless. If you are any orthodox Christian and you die, the teaching is that you go straight to heaven, bypassing this totally unnecessary "resurrection from the DEAD" stuff. Evil pagan doctrines are precious "idols of the heart" to them, and yet the truth of the resurrection from the dead, is "foolishness unto them." I cannot even imagine denying the necessity of what Paul shows us is our ONLY HOPE—the resurrection from THE DEAD.

Let me let you in on a little Scriptural Secret. I say secret, because not one in a hundred thousand knows the truth of this. Here’s the secret: No one in the history of humanity has ever died and gone to heaven. This is but another of the Pagan myths of Christendom. And furthermore, no orthodox Christian ever will die in the future and go to heaven. Neither will any of them be in the first resurrection, unless and until they bitterly repent of their association with:"
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