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Snatch them from fire?
Kat:
Hi Joe,
I am only speaking of this in the context that it appears to me to be in. It's not that I don't think there could be a prophetic message in this as well, it's just not what I'm focused on at this time.
Those Scriptures from James and Paul, that I used seems to saying right out that that's what they are speaking of and can be applied to Jude as well. That's all I'm saying.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on January 02, 2010, 01:29:32 PM ---
Why does this have to be 'here & now' OR future prophecy...what about both?
Marques
--- End quote ---
Marques,
Perhaps I have lost any and all communication skills. My premise right from the start was exactly as you stated above. This bit from Jude (as with many, many scriptures) has a multileveled message contained within it. I never once disputed the literal I only asked for folks to consider the prophetic or the culmination of the Kingdom fulfillment.
Peace,
Joe
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: Craig on January 02, 2010, 12:13:34 PM ---
So maybe we agree here but are just splitting hairs with our use of words and the meaning we are assigning to them?
Craig
--- End quote ---
I think that's it, Craig. And I think that's what Marques was getting at...this word 'saved'. When I was in church, I used to think of 'grace' as some kind of spiritual substance. When it was sort-of holy-rubbed on us, we were 'saved by grace'. That's not exactly what I believed, but it illustrates it. I had the same view towards 'salvation'...that it was a thing, and not a process with an end goal. We 'had salvation'. As a Baptist, once we 'had this salvation' we couldn't lose it...that way of thinking.
Now I think 'salvation' is one with all the other words the Scripture uses to describe the process of being created in the image of God. I understand it now as a process that God works in us incrementally. Dying to self, living to Christ--Being conformed to the image of His Son--and many other ways of expressing the same thought, or facets of the same thought.
When we are finally in that state of 'being saved' in the ultimate sense, we will give all glory and credit to God because we know that everything is of Him. There will be no more 'saving' necessary to do. But while we are on the way to that ultimate state (that is, being saved now) we can recognize that others are playing a role in our being saved, being perfected, however you want to put it. If they are, I can...by the grace of God.
Short version: I understand that there is no 'saved' as in past tense, done deal, except as it already existed in the foreknowledge of God. I understand that we are being saved, perfected, conformed, molded, etc, etc. now. I understand that our salvation (perfection, conforming, molding, etc. etc) won't be complete until resurrection and/or beyond. We know that all is of God. We know that we are servants of God, if indeed we are. We just don't know yet exactly what 'saved' means. :D
Anyway...none of this just fell out of my backside. ;D All this I got from B-T and Ray Smith, by the grace of God. I'd truly hate to think I've got it ALL wrong.
I'm not very good at explaining doctrine in general, and not much better at expressing what I really mean in scriptural terms. Some people are incisive and precise. I'm a sponge and rather messy. But I know what's true, and I don't disagree with Joe OR Marques. Go figure.
As far as the 'prophetic' elements to this particular scripture, I always see them. Jesus Christ (the author and finisher of this faith) Is, Was, and Shall be. Everything that is of Him is, was, and shall be. Now we see through a glass darkly that which was shadow and will be fully revealed. And when He appears, we (are, were, and) shall be like Him, for we shall (do, and have) see(n) Him as He truly Is (was, and shall be). Now is a foretaste of what shall be and what was prophecied even as it was being written. Told ya I was messy. :D
Akira329:
Hey Guys,
I don't think anyone is disputing the future application of this scripture.
It was more important to understand its present application before I could apply to future events e.g. the next age.
I believe the discussion helped Emmanuel and myself with understanding what this scripture is saying.
No way am I doubting the prophecy present in many scriptures but "no prophecy is of an private interpretation"
So I needed other scriptures to help my understanding of this section of verses.
I hope this clears it up!!
Antaiwan
aqrinc:
Just sticking my nose in this, hope no one bites it off. But here is what i found while looking for an answer to a different thread. There are more Scriptures that witness to this, but it is very good exercise to search them out, sometimes there is a huge Gold nugget just waiting for us in The Word.
2Cor 5:17-19 (GNB)
17 Anyone who is joined to Christ is a new being; the old is gone, the new has come.
18 All this is done by God, who through Christ changed us from enemies into his friends and gave us the task of making others his friends also.
19 Our message is that God was making all human beings his friends through Christ. God did not keep an account of their sins, and he has given us the message which tells how he makes them his friends.
2Cor 5:17-21 (CLV)
17 So that, if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: the primitive passed by. Lo! there has come new!"
18 Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation."
20 For Christ, then, are we ambassadors, as of God entreating through us. We are beseeching for Christ's sake, "Be conciliated to God!"
21 For the One not knowing sin, He makes to be a sin offering for our sakes that we may be becoming God's righteousness in Him."
george. :)
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