Contradiction?

[shaine]

Taken from Ray's paper-"Is God a Closed TRINITY or an Open FAMILY?
[A Scriptural Refutation of the Trinity Theory]"

"Of Whom is this ONE God composed? Answer: "the FATHER." NOT, the Father, AND the Son, AND the holy ghost! Just, "the Father!" ONLY, "the Father!!" "ONE God, the FATHER!"


Now from " Mobile conference 2009 audios 7 and 8"


"GOD IS SPIRIT" (John 4:24)
"I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE" - ONE WHAT? One GOD or One SPIRIT?  Excuse me!! 'GOD IS SPIRIT" (John 4:24)!!
How many "Gods" are there? ONE
How many Gods does Jesus AND His Father make? ONE
When God is "ALL in All" how many Gods will there be? ONE

Am I reading this wrong or is there a contradiction between first paragraph and the second paragraph?       

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Shane,

I see where you are coming from and on the surface it would appear to be a contradiction. But knowing what Ray teaches throughout his articles is that there is One Eternal (always has been, always will be) God and that is the Father. God is a title or perhaps you could even view it as a surname. Jesus came out of the Father, He did not exist "always" He was created and given His glory from His and our Father. One day we too will have that surname, when God is all in all.

In the Trinity paper Ray is dissecting the 3 eternal and equal Gods who some of the churches declare is indeed a 3 headed God triad, all equal in power and glory, all 3 having always existed.

Jesus is One with the Father, He shares His name, He is God.

Ray ties this together near the bottom of the Trinity article.

From; "Is God a Closed TRINITY or an Open FAMILY?"

I believe most can see from the above Scriptures that there are numerous and fundamental differences between the Father and Jesus the Son. However, there are still reasons to ask whether or not Jesus Christ, the Son of God the Father, is not also "God.?" Is Christ for example, not worthy our worship? Dare we worship any but "God?" And if Christ is indeed "God," when isn't He of the very same status, rank, authority, etc., as His Father? Good questions. Let's take them one at a time.

Is Christ God? YES HE IS!

    "Yet to the Son [this is GOD speaking]: 'Thy throne, O GOD, is for the eon of the eon..." (Heb. 1:8).

And also:

    Who [Jesus], being inherently in the form of God, deems it not pillaging [taking by force or plundering] to be EQUAL WITH GOD" (Phil. 2:6).

Is Christ worthy of worship? YES HE IS!

    "And lo! A leper, coming to Him, WORSHIPED Him, saying..." (Mat. 8:2),

    "lo! One approaching Him [Jesus], a chief, WORSHIPED Him..." (Mat. 9:18),

    "Now those in the ship WORSHIP Him, saying, 'truly, God's Son art Thou!'"

    "Yet she, coming, WORSHIPS Him, saying, 'Lord, help me!'" (Mat. 15:25).

So Christ is called "God," and did not consider it pillaging to be "equal" with God, and was often "worshiped." So surely, even if Christ is not the third person of a trinity, He must at least be the second person of a duet! SURELY, HE IS NOT! Let me explain.

Jesus IS God! True, but this fact does NOT make Him the FATHER! Let us always read and believe the Scriptures. The English word "God" is translated from the Greek word Theos which means PLACER or DISPOSER. ANYONE to whom the Father gives such an office of "placer or disposer" is a God! Notice what God says in Psalm 82:6,

    "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

Jesus explains this verse for us:

    "Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your law, that 'I say you are gods'? If He said those were gods, to whom the word of God came [and the scripture can not be annulled], are you saying to Him Whom the Father hallows and dispatches into the world that You are blaspheming,' seeing that I said, 'Son of God am I'? If I am not doing My Father's works, do not believe Me. Yet if I am doing them, and if ever you are not believing Me, be believing the works, that you may be knowing and believing that in Me is the Father, and I am in the Father."

Okay then, let's notice a few very important points. Jesus never came out and said "I AM GOD!" He always called Himself, "The Son OF God." Recall that Jesus did not consider it "pillaging" to be equal with God. That is, he didn't need to steal, or take His office by FORCE, because His God, the Father, GAVE ALL THINGS TO HIM FREELY! Though Jesus is certainly "God," we must always remember that everything that made Him "God" (like His Father), WAS GIVEN TO HIM! Is there anyone who would suggest that someone GAVE God the Father all that He possesses? I think not. There is clearly a distinction--we have a "Father" and a "Son," NOT two equal Gods of a so-called trinity.

Notice that Jesus always acknowledges His subjection to His Father:

    "Jesus, being aware that the Father has GIVEN ALL INTO HIS HANDS, and that He came out FROM God and is going away TO God" (John 13:3).

    "Now the Father, remaining in Me, He IS DOING HIS WORKS" (John 14:10).

    "And the word which you are hearing is NOT Mine, but the Father's Who sends me" (John 14:24).

    "I am going to the Father, for THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I" (John 14:28).

    "Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, THE SON HIMSELF ALSO SHALL BE SUBJECTED TO HIM Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all" (I Cor. 15:28).

These Scriptures are clear, and there are many more like this. The Father is GREATER than His Son, and the Son will ALWAYS be subjected to His Father. They are NOT two, coequal Gods of a fabled trinity. They are "Father and Son." They are "FAMILY!" And the "spirit of God" is just that, the spirit "OF" God, not "the spirit God." And Jesus Christ has this SAME SPIRIT in Himself also. And it is THIS VERY SPIRIT that God the Father gives to US through His Son, Jesus Christ. It is not difficult to understand if one will simply believe the Scriptures.

Again, I want everyone to take note that when Christ speaks of the close relationship between Himself and His Father, He NEVER includes the "holy spirit" into that relationship! This is surely not an oversight on Christ's part.

Our Lord gives us a beautiful metaphor in these same chapters of John. Jesus says:

    "I am the true Grapevine, and My father is the Farmer... I am the Grapevine. You are the branches" (John 15:1 & 5).

Notice that the holy spirit is NO PART of this analogy. Now seriously, if the holy spirit were a third personality or god of the trinity, then why does it have NO PART in so many dozens and dozens of Scriptures like this one? Surely if there is a trinity, the holy spirit could represent maybe the soil, or the sunshine, or the rain, or at least be some part of this analogy with the Father, the Son, and the Saints, don't you think? But no! The holy spirit is not mentioned. That is because it is not necessary for it to be mentioned, and also because it is not a third god of a trinity.....

Peace,

Joe 

[Stacey]

Amen Joe !

[aqrinc]

Yah but, Nothing .

Thanks for that refresher joe.

george .