> General Discussions
Luke 1:35
dave:
I do not believe in the "immaculate conception," but I having some trouble with this. Jesus had to come from the lineage of Abraham>David>Joseph> and so as Matt.1 reads he did. Now then, I know that Jesus was/is/ and will be the Son of God, my problem is where did the Holy Spirit come in all this? I have to believe that Joseph and Mary had intercourse and had a baby, Jesus, for the lineage, but the Holy Spirit played a part as well. I just need some other thoughts on this. maybe it has been dealt with if so a point in the direction would be appreciated. Thanks in His Name.
Craig:
Why don't you believe in immaculate conception. Joseph was obviously distressed over Mary's pregnancy, he had not been with her and suspected another man had. The angel of God appeared and told him Mary was pure. Do you find other scripture to support your belief?
Craig
barrabus:
I can't get past the first sentance...( I do not believe in the "immaculate conception," ) ... to address the rest of the post I would have to get past that statement... I can't... in my mind if Jesus was born any other way then he would be no differant than anyone else and this part of scripture would become a lie and therefore all of it would be a lie...
Kat:
Hi Micah7:9,
Here are a couple of excerpts, the first is from the 'Foundational Truths' transcript and the second is from the last conference "Is Jesus "God"' which has a great deal about who Jesus Christ was.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=6452.0 ---
My starting point with the trinity has always been two Scriptures. Is God a trinity? Is the Holy Spirit a person, separate from Jesus Christ and separate from the Father? I have two Scriptures and you should mark them in your Bible or put them in your notes or something.
Mat 1:20 …for that which is conceived in her (Mary) is of the HOLY SPIRIT.
What caused Mary to conceive the Child, Jesus Christ? What? The Holy Spirit. Is that a separate person from His God and Father? Well if He was conceived by the Holy Spirit whose Son was He?
If I cause a woman to conceive, when the child is born guess who’s the father of that son? Me, not somebody else. One man can’t cause a woman to conceive a child in her womb and then when it’s born, it’s the child of some other man, I mean in the flesh. That’s a total biological impossibility. Whoever conceives the child is the Father of the child.
Now who conceived Jesus Christ in His mother’s womb? The Holy Spirit. Then when Christ was born whose Son was He? One more Scripture;
2 John 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, THE SON OF THE FATHER, in truth and love.
It took me a couple of years to find that verse, because I checked several times and I couldn’t find a verse that said that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Father. You know you find all kinds of verses about the Father, but I couldn’t find one that actually came right out and said it. Then one day I found it.
So Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit and He is the Son of the Father. He is not the Son of the Holy Spirit. Therefore the Holy Spirit is not a person. You don’t need to know anything else about the trinity. That’s it, the trinity falls right there. It’s finished, it’s dead in the water. Can you see that?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11033.0.html --------
I’ve thought about this in years past when I didn’t have the full answers to this. Could a man, just a man now, be the Savior of the world? See, if you’re going to argue that Jesus Christ was a man, only a man and nothing divine about him, there are all kinds of problems, just philosophically speaking.
Why would He have to be conceived by God? Why? He’s just a man and men are born all the time. So we want him to be of the line of Judah. All right, fine, let’s get a Jewish boy. You get a Jewish boy and Jewish girl, we’ll marry them and they’ll have a baby boy and he’ll be the Savior of the world. Why not?
Think about it. Let’s think about all the words. Why did Jesus have to be conceived by His Father? Why, if He’s just a man. Jewish women have boys all the time. If He had to be something special above a man, then He was no longer ‘just a man.’ Did I say something wrong? If He had to be something more than a man, then He’s more than a man, He’s not just a man.
Is any Jewish boy’s life worth all the billions of humanity combined? Is any Jewish boy worth that? [attendee: No.] How so?
Why didn’t God say, We need a Jewish boy… Jacobson, we’ll use you, we’re going to crucify you and you’re going to save the world that way. -- ‘Me?’
Yeah, what do you do for a living? -- ‘I’m a carpenter.’
Yeah, that will do. You’re a carpenter, okay. We’ll kill you and that way I’ll save the whole world. -- ‘Of what value am I that my life is worth more than the whole world of humanity, billions of people?
What would God say? Well yeah, you’re worth more than the rest of humanity put together. -- ‘How so? Why?’
So why was He conceived by God? If God wanted a man He could have chosen any man. If He wanted him to be born of a virgin… fine, he could be born of a virgin. But why did He have to be conceived by God Himself? WHY?
[Attendee: To have the spirit of God with Him from birth.] Well the Spirit of God was with a lot of people from birth. But then again, if He had God’s Spirit in a ‘special’ way from birth and it’s a little boy… He wasn’t just a man. Because no man goes through his teenage years without lusting after a pretty girl. So He had to be more than just a man. ‘Just a man’ lust and that’s a sin. If He sinned, He can’t be the Savior of the world, He is not the perfect sacrifice. We need a perfect sacrifice that is flawless. There is no human being that is flawless. Jesus Christ said so Himself.
Matthew 19:16-17 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And hH said unto him, Why callest thou Me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
Now we’re going to make a second “good” one. But out of just a man? JUST a man? If Jesus is just a man and that’s all it takes to save the world, God could have used any Jewish boy to be the Savior of the world. I don’t think any of you really believe that would have worked. There’s more to Jesus Christ than just the fact that He was born like any other human being.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
dave:
Thanks one and all. I am really on your side of the question I am asking. I read an artical that was mainly on the trinity(which I do not believe either) and the writer more or less said that since we know that Mary a virgin(maiden, unmarried daughter) was espoused(bretrothed) to Joseph (this is his statement now) that if any other than Joseph were to be with Mary, that conception would be illigetiment. I certainly do believe that Jesus was "of the Holy Ghost." Matt. 1:18,20. I understand how I and my question can seem extreme, is the writers point off the mark? The lineage of Jesus through Abraham>Joseph must have some value. Luke 1:23 and Isa. certainly are complimenting each other. And I believe Luke 1:35 says the Holy Spirit is the sponser of the that Holy thing, which is the Son of God. But I still do not accept the "imaculate conception," even so, my faith is not wavering. Should this be a touchy subject I will leave it alone. Peace in His Love.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version