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Being in Spirit
elias3013:
What I believe about being in the Spirit and what I think everyone is saying is as follows:
Once you receive the Spirit of God, He never leaves you. It is His Spirit residing in you that directs your steps and teaches you the truth of His Word as you submit to His leading.
Yes we do have a carnal nature that wars against His Spirit and at times we submit to the desires of that carnal spirit of man that is a part of us, but if we keep in mind that the Holy Spirit that is in us, is more powerful and greater than that carnal spirit and unless we stubbornly reject the leading of God's Spirit, His Spirit will overcome our carnal desires.
We are in the Spirit when we subject ourselves to His leading and are not in the Spirit when we allow our carnal desires to have their way, but as we have been taught, He (His Spirit) will never leave us.
Ron
Marky Mark:
--- Quote from: elias3013 on January 18, 2010, 08:02:04 AM ---What I believe about being in the Spirit and what I think everyone is saying is as follows:
Once you receive the Spirit of God, He never leaves you. It is His Spirit residing in you that directs your steps and teaches you the truth of His Word as you submit to His leading.
Yes we do have a carnal nature that wars against His Spirit and at times we submit to the desires of that carnal spirit of man that is a part of us, but if we keep in mind that the Holy Spirit that is in us, is more powerful and greater than that carnal spirit and unless we stubbornly reject the leading of God's Spirit, His Spirit will overcome our carnal desires.
We are in the Spirit when we subject ourselves to His leading and are not in the Spirit when we allow our carnal desires to have their way, but as we have been taught, He (His Spirit) will never leave us.
Ron
--- End quote ---
Hello Ron.
Saying that the Spirit can never leave you is not a true statement.Just because we have been given some Spiritual Truths does not mean that we have a free pass, if you will. Although it is true that all will be saved eventually by Gods Spirit,this none the less takes a mighty work on the part of the Truth seeker.We have to continue in His Faith in order for the Spirit to remain with us.
If you have not read Rays paper on CAN WE LOSE GOD’S SPIRIT AND EONIAN LIFE?, may I suggest a read or reread, as necessary, for a better understanding.
Hope this is of some help.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7047.0.html
--- Quote ---Col 1:23 IF you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Is that too hard to understand? Well lets ask ourselves the question, what do you suppose would happen if we don’t continue? Well this reader says it does not matter, we have it. IT MATTERS. “If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” See that’s how you have it, “IF you continue.” I like how Rotherham says it, I checked the Greek and it does kind of have that connotation, he says;
Col 1:23 If, at least, ye are abiding still in the faith…
“If, at least” you’ve got to be doing that, okay. Then you will have all of these things. Again the big ‘if.’
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
v. 27 But some fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation…
So you mean you can receive the truth and you can be locked into all these Scriptures, like this reader says, but then you can do something wrong? Yes, you can.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Can we lose out… well we read the Scripture that if you sin willfully - willingly there is no more sacrifice for you. Now look at this verse, many people probably never really saw it before.
1 John 3:15 Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal (eonian or age lasting) life abiding (the Greek is “staying or “REMAINING”) in him.
So the Greek is staying or remaining. Now if you just read that without all the background that I’m giving you, then you get the feeling that, well he won't be given God’s abiding life. No, he already has it. The only way something cannot stay in you or not remain in you, is if it’s in you. Do you follow that? It’s in you.
He’s not talking to Barbarians here or infidels, he’s talking to the congregation who have the spirit of God. But he says if you hate your brother the spirit of God will no longer stay with you, it will no longer be in you. If the Spirit of God is not in you, you are no longer His. Then you are going to the judgment. That’s just how simple that is. All through these Scriptures if you read carefully, maybe it doesn’t have it just like this, but this is just a poor translation. But if you read Concordant and Rotherham and all, they will tell you to ‘stay’ - ‘remain.’ It means to remain, but it won’t remain. You see it’s there, but it’s coming out.
--- End quote ---
Peace...Mark
elias3013:
Well Mark, I don't really think there is a difference in what we both are saying.
You said: "We have to continue in His Faith in order for the Spirit to remain with us."
I agree with that and I thought that everyone would take that for granted without it having to be said. If it was possible for someone to be given the Holy Spirit of God and they turned from the faith and denied the Lord, the Spirit would be taken from them.
Where we might differ in this is that once someone received the Spirit of God, is is not possible for them to turn from the faith. If it appears that they did turn from the faith (in man's view) they probably never had the Spirit in the first place.
With reference to Heb 10:26 "if we sin willfully" means that if we deny the gospel and turn from the faith". I personally don't think this is possible to do after one has been converted to the truth of God's Word.
God's Word does say in Heb 13:5 "I will never leave you, nor forsake you"
I prefer to believe His words.
Ron
Kat:
Hi Ron,
--- Quote ---Once you receive the Spirit of God, He never leaves you.
--- End quote ---
Now that statement is true, IF you are one of the Elect.
Heb 13:5 "I will never leave you, nor forsake you"
This statement is true IF we are the Elect. BUT WE DON'T KNOW if we are one of the Elect for sure, not until we have endured to the end. And the Scriptures would not warn of this if it were not so.
Mark 13:13 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
James 5:11 Indeed we count them blessed who endure.
Rev 2:10 ... Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
More from 'CAN WE LOSE GOD’S SPIRIT AND EONIAN LIFE?'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3108.0.html ---
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
Reader: ‘In Eph. 1:13-14 we are told that we again are sealed with the Holy Spirit and has given us a pledge of our inheritance now - that is again our assurance that we have salvation now.’
No, we do not have salvation now. What we have now is a “pledge,” that’s what it says. Notice that’s what it says in verse 14.
Eph 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption... (NASB)
But his thing is, 'nope, if it says it, then you have it, you possess it now.' No it’s a “a view to the redemption,” a pledge and a view is not possession.
v
v
(Rotherham) 1 Cor 9:27 But am beating my body under, and leading it captive, lest, by any means,—unto others, having proclaimed, the contest , I myself, should be rejected.
See he was in the contest, then he could be rejected.
(YLT) 1 Cor 9:27 but I chastise my body, and bring it into servitude, lest by any means, having preached to others--I myself may become disapproved.
So while you are doing right you are approved, qualified, you're in the race. But if you give up or you turn or you just sin willfully, willingly, knowingly hate your brother, then it’s gone. It can happen. Maybe I just need to explain why is that so.
Because the flesh is weak. Know how much spiritual stuff we know, well we are still very very weak. If we knew we didn’t have to persevere, guess what? Maybe most of the time or at least some of the time… we wouldn’t. Maybe sometimes you would try to resist the temptation to go out with another woman, if you were married, but not all the time, sometimes you might give in. So He doesn’t tell us.
That’s the thing I learned a long time ago, probably at least eight years ago. The verse that set that off to me was where it says Christ knows those that are His.
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd; and I know mine own…
Well what does that mean? Christ knows those that are His. I get from that, that we don’t know, we don’t.
Now I have read you from Peter, which is to me, it is a very inspiring Scripture. Because we are not left totally in the dark. He is like, well it’s Que Sera Sera - maybe you will, maybe you won’t. Now here are some of these promises. Peter says;
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
v. 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
v. 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
v. 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity (love).
v. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
v. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for IF (there that little word “if” again) ye do these things (but here is the consolation, here is the inspiration, the hope and assurance…), ye shall never fall:
Now that’s pretty good. So all these things Paul is talking about here, I bring it into subjection, I bind it, I turn myself into a slave for Christ, lest I myself should be rejected or turned away or unapproved or disqualified. But IF we “do these things.”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---I personally don't think this is possible to do after one has been converted to the truth of God's Word.
God's Word does say in Heb 13:5 "I will never leave you, nor forsake you"
I prefer to believe His words.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---God's Word does say in Heb 13:5 "I will never leave you, nor forsake you"
--- End quote ---
Before or after our Spiritual conversion?
--- Quote ---I personally don't think this is possible to do after one has been converted to the truth of God's Word.
--- End quote ---
Hi Ron. As Kat has already stated,only if we are of the elect.
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd; and I know mine own…
Spiritual conversion does not take place until the resurrection.
Rev 2:10 ... Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Now when Jesus states that His words are Spirit,well,who are you going to believe?. Man or God. None of us have been truly converted of the Spirit seeing as we are still in the flesh.Only when our physical bodies have been converted into Spiritual bodies can then one say that the Spiritual conversion has happened [speaking of Gods few chosen elect]. Until then we are all yet sinners and not worthy of being called righteous sons of God. All to often we seem to forget that Spirit is life and that flesh is death. If any of us think of Scripture as being anything other than things of the Spirit,we have yet a long way to go in His ways of understanding of what true conversion really means for the faithful believer.
I slip and fall daily in my walk with God,and if not for his mercy and grace,I could not finish what He has planed for me,in my Hope, as a seeker of the Spirit and of the Truth,in His Word. If I believe that the Father can give me the Faith to finish the race, I can also believe that it is only if He wills it to happen in this earthly existence.All things are of God and that includes an understanding that we of ourselves can do nothing, without His hand in it,producing His fruits,in all of His creatures, in His time, and for His good pleasure. Amen.
Peace...Mark
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