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Author Topic: Judgement  (Read 1862 times)

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vinicle

  • Guest
Judgement
« on: January 13, 2010, 10:50:31 AM »

Hi all
whats the distinction between thd judgement now on the Elect and the trials that the rest of the world experiences daily?
Regards
Devine
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Judgement
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2010, 11:23:29 AM »

Hi all
whats the distinction between thd judgement now on the Elect and the trials that the rest of the world experiences daily?
Regards
Devine

Hello Devine,

The wicked and unbelieving are judged in God's wrath and indignation. We are being judged, right now in this age, though tribulation and affliction. While some may not believe or understand why God has set His judgments to be this way or why we are not appointed to God's wrath since it is only by the grace of God we believe, nevertheless, this is the plan of God. This is what faith is...believing and trusting in God.

Excerpt from 'Exposing the Secret Rapture' (http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm):

At this point in our discussion, it will be helpful to define some words that are often interchanged as if they are virtually one and the same. It is important that we understand the meanings of important words that are wrongly applied by those who teach the rapture:

    1. Affliction: Keyword Concordance, anguish, persecution, tribulation, trouble, ill treatment, suffering. Webster’s: affliction, any cause of pain or suffering.

    AND

    2.Tribulation: Keyword Concordance, affliction Webster’s: tribulation, great misery or distress

    VERSUS

    3.Wrath: Keyword Concordance, fury, indignation, vexation Webster’s: wrath, intense anger, rage, fury, vengeance

    AND

    4.Indignation: Keyword Concd., anger, vengeance, wrath Webster’s: Adj.-- indignation, expressing anger especially unjust or mean actions. Noun-- righteous anger.


Although there is somewhat of an overlap in defining these words, we can still get a clear picture as to how these words are used in the Scriptures. Notice that "affliction" and "tribulation" are nearly synonymous. Notice also, that "wrath" and "indignation" are nearly synonymous. "Affliction" can be defined as "tribulation," and "tribulation" can be defined as "affliction." Likewise, "wrath" can be defined as "indignation," and "indignation" can be defined as "wrath." But, the first two words, "affliction and tribulation" are not synonymous with the second two words, "wrath and indignation." There is a giant difference in their usage, and especially when used in a prophetic setting. I hope I haven’t lost anyone. Reread this a few times and you’ll get it.

It is when we fail to keep these prophetic events where they belong that we end up with ideas such that Christ is coming back a second time twice.

The Scripture says,

    "For God did not appoint us to INDIGNATION ..." (I Thes. 5:9).

It nowhere says that God has not appointed us to trials, troubles, pain, suffering, heartache, disappointment, disease, death, or hurricanes! In fact, Paul himself, tells us that we enter the Kingdom of God by going through a whole lot of these things (Acts 14:22).

I personally, presently, am going through trials, troubles, pain, suffering, heartache, disappointment, disease, and two very near death experiences in the past few years, not to mention hurricane Andrew. But, nonetheless, it is a great comfort to me to know that God has not appointed me to His indignation. Believers are chastised by a wise Father out of LOVE, the nations will be punished by an angry God out of VENGEANCE. Can we not see the difference? (Actually God’s "anger and vengeance" is also out of love, but the nations will certainly not initially perceive it as such).


When we look at all the ways that "indignation" is used in the Greek Scriptures, it becomes overwhelmingly clear that "indignation" is used of God to punish the wicked and stubborn. Indignation is not a direct form of chastisement. No matter how many, how much, how often, how severe your sufferings and tribulations may be, if you love God you can be absolutely guaranteed that not one iota of it is coming upon you in the form of God’s indignation. Here then is how, on whom, and when God pours out His indignation:

    "Progeny of vipers! Who intimates to you to be fleeing from the impending indignation?" (Matt. 3:7).

    "For God’s indignation is being revealed from heaven on all the irreverence and injustice of men ..." (Rom. 1:18).

    "Yet, in accord with your hardness and unrepentant heart you are hoarding for yourself indignation in the day of indignation and revelation of the just judgment of God ..." (Rom. 2:5).

    "Much rather, then, being now justified in His blood, we shall be saved from indignation, through Him" (Rom. 5:9).

    "Now if God, wanting to display His indignation and to make His powerful doings known, carries, with much patience, the vessels of indignation ..." (Rom. 9:22).

    "Being at peace with all mankind, you are not avenging yourselves, beloved, but be giving place to His indignation, for it is written, "Mine is vengeance! I will repay! The Lord is saying" (Rom. 12:19).

    "Let no one be seducing you with empty words, for because of these things the indignation of God is coming on the sons of stubbornness" (Eph. 5:6).

    "Deaden, then, your members that are on the earth: prostitution, uncleanness, passion, evil desire and greed, which is idolatry, because of which the indignation of God is coming on the sons of stubbornness ..." (Col. 3:5-6).

    "Wherefore, ‘I am disgusted with this generation, and said, Ever are they straying in heart; Yet they know not My ways,’ As I swear in My indignation, If they shall be entering into My rest ...!" (Heb. 3:10-11).

    "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him Who is sitting on the throne, and from the indignation of the Lambkin, for the great day of Their indignation came, and who is able to stand? (Rev. 6:17).

    "And the nations are angered, and Thy indignation came, and the era for the dead to be judged, and to give their wages to Thy slaves, the prophets, and to the saints and to those fearing Thy name, the small and the great, and to blight those who are blighting the earth" (Rev. 11:18-19).

    "If anyone is worshiping the wild beast and its image, and is getting an emblem on his forehead or on his hand, he, also, is drinking of the wine of the fury of God, blended undiluted in the cup of His indignation, and he shall be tormented in fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy messengers and in the sight of the Lambkin" (Rev. 14:10).

    "And Babylon the great is brought to remembrance in the sight of God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fury of His indignation" (Rev. 16:19).

    "And He is treading the wine trough of the fury of the indignation of God, the Almighty" (Rev. 19:16).

There are the Greek Scriptures on indignation. Notice that it always comes from God. It is poured out in vengeance upon the unrepentant, the stubborn, the unjust and irreverent, those who worship the beast, etc. Never is God’s indignation poured out on His SAINTS! Not the Gentile saints and not the Jewish saints. The saints of Israel have not "been appointed to indignation", they are not "of the night," they will not "be overtaken as a thief," they are a part of "all the saints," I Thes. 2:14 and 3:13.


Paul makes this point as well in Romans:

Rom 9:14-24  What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!  For He says to Moses,  “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

You will say to me
[as have so many members, past and present have and continue to do] then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


Paul states that God is enduring, with LONGSUFFERING, the vessels appointed to His wrath to make known the RICHES OF HIS GLORY. The end result of God's judgments, whether through wrath/indignation for the unbelieving or tribulation/affliction for the believers, is the same....to prepare all humanity for righteousness and glory.


Hope this helps,

Marques
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Judgement
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2010, 12:53:09 PM »

Hi Vinicle,

Mankind is made in a corrupt state of being with a carnal mind, that does not know God.

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

We live our lives in this world seeking after physically/carnal gain one way or another, partaking of the tree of good and evil.

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it. (CLV)

I believe that this 'experience' in this physical life, with all the good and the bad, the trials and pleasures, the ups and the downs is for us to learns what life is.  It is to give us a backdrop of knowing the physical, a knowledge of darkness from which He can then work.  But He is not doing His work of saving the world now in this age, that will come in the resurrection of the dead in the great white throne judgement.  But for a very few, judgment has started now.

1Pe 4:17  For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

The difference in what the world is experiencing now and the judgment that the Elect is experiencing is that God has changing the heart in those few He is dealing with.  Most are on the broad path now and a few have been directed to the narrow path (Mat. 7:13-14).  For those few they are being made into the image of Christ, in a process of changing/renewing the mind, of taking out all the old filth that we have in us.

Eze 36:26  I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Eph 4:22  that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
v. 23  and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
v. 24  and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

The trials/chastisement that the Elect is going through is to correct and conform them, training them to rule with Christ.

Heb 12:11  Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

The world is not being shown the truth and being corrected until righteousness now.  They are blind to the truth and do not have ears to hear it at this time.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So the world is living according to their carnal fleshly hearts and ways and all that comes with it; trials, problems, corruption, deceitfulness and wickedness.

Jer 17:9  The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?

Tit 3:3  For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.

But we always want to look to where this is all leading.

Isa 26:9  With my soul I have desired You in the night,
       Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early;
       For when Your judgments are in the earth,
       The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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