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Author Topic: revelation understanding needed .please!  (Read 3112 times)

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the truth

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revelation understanding needed .please!
« on: January 25, 2010, 10:40:45 AM »

my question is this :could someone walk through the process of the lord return 1 -resurection to the white throne judgement.i am unclear as to if there are others living during the 1000 year millie.other than the elect .or does everyone else drop dead at his coming and the elect are the only ones alive?thanks in advance for your help.the truth!
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Kat

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2010, 12:15:38 PM »


We know that Christ will return in power and glory.

Rev 19:11  Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.

1Th 4:16  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead IN Christ will rise first.
v. 17  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

His Elect will be raised and made righteous in the 'first' resurrection, so will be with Christ as He returns.

Rev 19:14  And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.

Now we can see several places where it speaks of the first "resurrection of life" and also the "resurrection of condemnation."  

John 5:28  Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
v. 29  and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

And we know the passage in Matt. that speaks of His return and of the two separate groups of people that He will designate.

Mat 25:31  `And whenever the Son of Man may come in His glory, and all the holy messengers with Him, then He shall sit upon a throne of His glory;
v. 32  and gathered together before Him shall be all the nations, and He shall separate them from one another, as the shepherd doth separate the sheep from the goats,
v. 33  and He shall set the sheep indeed on His right hand, and the goats on the left.
Christ and the Elect are coming to earth to reign and rule "the inhabitants," people.
v. 34  `Then shall the king say to those on His right hand, Come ye, the blessed of My Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
v. 41  Then shall He say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from Me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;

Now this all happen, when Christ returns and takes charge and puts everything/everybody where they will be during His reign.  When it says "every eye will see Him," these people must be alive, they have been raised in order to actually 'see' Him.

Rev 1:7  Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Now they are raised and they will "see Him" because they stand before Him at the "great white throne," those whose names are not in "the Book" - Christ, will then be cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:11  Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
v. 12  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened.
v. 15  And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now the "fire" ("God is a consuming fire" Heb 12:29) is what will judge these people, that are alive on earth now.

2Peter 3:7  But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Rev 19:15  Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And this lake of fire, is the age of judgment, when Christ and the Elect will rule this world, on this earth.

Rev 5:10  And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."

Rev 3:10  Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Isa 26:9 For when Your judgments are in the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Well this is the way these Scriptures seem to come together to me.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 05:45:44 PM by Kat »
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elias3013

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2010, 01:47:50 PM »

To The Truth

The 20th chapter of Revelations states that satan is released at the end of the Millennium and starts again to deceive the people still living on the Earth.

So while the elect is with the Lord for a thousand years, there still exists many still alive on the Earth.

Ron
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EKnight

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2010, 11:13:52 AM »

Quote
Rev 1:7  Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

If every eye will see Him and then He will reign for 1000 years and then after the 1000 years satan is set loose again to deceive, how could people be deceived after "seeing"?  It certainly sounds like when Christ returns, there will be no doubt;
 
1Th 4:16  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God

Eileen
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mharrell08

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2010, 12:32:24 AM »

To The Truth

The 20th chapter of Revelations states that satan is released at the end of the Millennium and starts again to deceive the people still living on the Earth.

So while the elect is with the Lord for a thousand years, there still exists many still alive on the Earth.

Ron


To go along with Eileen's post, Rev 20 does not say people being deceived again after the Millennium.

Rev 20:7-9  ...when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


Satan with 'Gog and Magog' compass or surround the camp of the saints but are ultimately devoured by fire from God...nothing of people being deceived. This is symbolism...in the OT, a similar event occurred:

Joshua 11:1-5  ...it came to pass, when Jabin king of Hazor had heard those things, that he sent to Jobab king of Madon, and to the king of Shimron, and to the king of Achshaph, And to the kings that were on the north of the mountains, and of the plains south of Chinneroth, and in the valley, and in the borders of Dor on the west, And to the Canaanite on the east and on the west, and to the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Jebusite in the mountains, and to the Hivite under Hermon in the land of Mizpeh.

And they went out, they and all their hosts with them, much people, even as the sand that is upon the sea shore
['the number of whom is as the sand of the sea'...Rev 20:8] in multitude, with horses and chariots very many. And when all these kings were met together, they came and pitched together at the waters of Merom, to fight against Israel.

So all these pagan kings banded together and set out to fight Israel...but did they defeat ['deceive' - Rev 20:8] any of Israel?

Joshua 11:6-11  the LORD said unto Joshua, Be not afraid because of them: for to morrow about this time will I deliver them up all slain before Israel: thou shalt hough their horses, and burn their chariots with fire. So Joshua came, and all the people of war with him, against them by the waters of Merom suddenly; and they fell upon them.

And the LORD delivered them into the hand of Israel, who smote them, and chased them unto great Zidon, and unto Misrephothmaim, and unto the valley of Mizpeh eastward; and they smote them, until they left them none remaining
['fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them' - Rev 20:9]. And Joshua did unto them as the LORD bade him: he houghed their horses, and burnt their chariots with fire.

And Joshua at that time turned back, and took Hazor, and smote the king thereof with the sword: for Hazor beforetime was the head of all those kingdoms. And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword
['out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron' - Rev 19:15], utterly destroying them: there was not any left to breathe:

The entire purpose of the Millenium or 1000 year reign of Christ & His Elect is to judge, purge, and purify the nations.


Hope this helps,

Marques
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2010, 07:31:42 AM »

Hello the truth

You have some rich edification to ponder from the Scriptures you have recieved. Please note Rev 20 : 5 :-\
Quote
my question is this :could someone walk through the process of the lord return 1 -resurection to the white throne judgement.i am unclear as to if there are others living during the 1000 year millie.other than the elect .or does everyone else drop dead at his coming and the elect are the only ones alive?thanks in advance for your help.the truth!

There is the resurrection to the white throne judgment and the resurrection to life.

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Luk 20:36  Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
 
Rev. 20:5          But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years….is NOT SCRIPTURE. This is where all the assumptions, confusion, uncertainty, misunderstanding, chaos and upheaval is manifested that is from the seed the enemy planted among the wheat overthrowing the faith of some.

Mat 13:25  But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

No one drops dead after the resurrection. They either join Christ or they are purified through the lake of fire purification that shall burn all false security, purge out idolitary and correct imperfection.

Joh 5:29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Act 24:15  And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Arc
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 07:34:00 AM by Arcturus »
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Arion

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2010, 09:47:46 AM »

Thanks for this thread.  Along the same vein...

Isa 65:20  There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.  kjv

Isa 65:20 There is not thence any more a suckling of days, And an aged man who doth not complete his days, For the youth a hundred years old dieth, And the sinner, a hundred years old, is lightly esteemed. ylt

Isa 65:20 And no longer shall there be thence a child of few days, or an old man who is not filling his days, for the youth will be a hundred years old, yet the one dying will be a sinner, a hundred years old; he shall be made light of.  clv

The whole chapter in context appears to be during the millennial reign of Christ while the lake of fire is performing it's function.  This verse seems to intimate that people will still 'die' although it might mean that this is when they die their death to self and their man of sin.  In addition I wonder what happens to those who are born naturally to flesh and blood parents during the millennial reign?  Since it's appointed to man once to die and then the judgment then how can these people die a physical death when the resurrection to judgment has already taken place? Let me preface to say that I'm sure many of us have questions that Ray has never dealt with and on this side we'll never see totally clear as we are still looking into the glass darkly.  This is just one of those many things I have mused about and still have no answer for.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 10:00:19 AM by Arion »
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mharrell08

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2010, 10:25:52 AM »

In addition I wonder what happens to those who are born naturally to flesh and blood parents during the millennial reign?  Since it's appointed to man once to die and then the judgment then how can these people die a physical death when the resurrection to judgment has already taken place? Let me preface to say that I'm sure many of us have questions that Ray has never dealt with and on this side we'll never see totally clear as we are still looking into the glass darkly.  This is just one of those many things I have mused about and still have no answer for.


Hello Arion,

Ray teaches on the verse from Hebrews 9 that you speak of:

Heb 9:27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 16-D5 (http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm):

THE SECOND DEATH

It's time for another one of those enigmatic Scriptures that sound very simple, but are difficult to harmonize with all Scriptures compare "spiritual with spiritual" and believe Jesus when He tells us that His "words ARE spirit" (John 6:63). Here is that enigmatic statement:

    "And as it is appointed unto men [Gk: 'anthropose'--human, mankind] once to die, but after this the judgment"

This Scripture is all-encompassing, universal, and applies to every human who has ever lived. All humanity must die once, and after that death, they must be judged. There are no exceptions, not even for mentally challenged, teens, youngsters and even infants. (Do sound-minded Christians really believe that when babies die they go to heaven and therefore, there will be millions of eternal babies [in diapers?] living in heaven for all eternity AS BABIES?) God has a way to deal with babies and infants in the Day of Judgment that will be quite equitable -- they will grow up to be adults.

The Chosen Elect are judged now in this Church age (I Cor. 11:31), while the unrepentant, unbelieving, mentally challenged, infants, and all other such categories, are judged in the resurrection to Judgment (I Cor. 11:32)--"In that day," as the Scriptures mention so many times. The reason I don't put infants and such in the category of the wicked every time I mention the wicked and judgment, is because there are few places that mention babies in a Judgment setting, but there are some, but they are not judged as are the wicked. They will be judged for their carnality when it shows itself, as they mature.

    "Because he hath appointed a day [called that day and the Day of the Lord in many prophesies], in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that Man Whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead" (Acts 17:31).

Some Scriptures refer to judgment on the unrepentant, wicked, and unbelievers. Others refer to judgment on the chosen Elect of God. And still others refer to judgment on both the wicked and the Elect, but at different times.

Now get ready for a real revelation. There are two mysteries in Heb. 9:27 when applied to God's Elect:

   1. what and when is the "ONCE to die?"
   
   2. what and when is the "after this JUDGMENT?"

We will take up the Elect's Judgment part of this verse first.

We learned that Gehenna fire, and unquenchable fire, and eonian fire, and the furnace of fire, and being salted with fire, and the lake of fire, are all the same fire, and this fire is JUDGMENT. Now then, since the lake of fire is judgment, and the lake of fire "is" also the second death, if follows that the second death also "is" judgment. THE SECOND DEATH IS JUDGMENT, AND JUDGMENT IS THE SECOND DEATH.

Had God wanted to make things easy, He could have inspirited Heb. 9:27 to read like this: "And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the SECOND death."

For that is what the second death is, JUDGMENT. Likewise then, Judgment is the SECOND death. After the ONCE to die comes the SECOND to die. Or: After the FIRST death comes the SECOND death. Simple enough when God gives us eyes to see. But there is still an enigma about this verse that we will cover a little later.


I didn't want to post the entire paper, but it should be looked at in it's entirety to help in the answers you seek. Look unto sound counsel before giving up on seeking a scriptural truth and desire a teachable heart. This is not to say Ray has taught on every subject imaginable, but he has helped us in understanding 'how' to understand the Word of God [Good read: http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm].


Hope this helps,

Marques
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onelovedread

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2010, 10:58:19 AM »

I was just about to ask the question - Are we applying Ray's teaching 'TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD'? And then I read Marques' post. For myself, I've printed out each of the 12 principles and have been meditating on them in order to reprogram my approach to the Word. In my spirit I am convinced that this is a "bedrock" teaching that must be a part of our understanding and application of God's word. I'm confident that it will transform and re-educate us to attain the desired 'revelation understanding'.


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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2010, 11:13:42 AM »

Hi Arion

Isa 65 is not literal. Not one word of the entire scriptures are literal. Not one dot or tittle is literal. There is not one speck of dust in the entire Word of God. To assume otherwise is to say that Christ speaks a lie or that carnality falls out of His mouth from time to time. It doesn't. The Words He speaks are Spirit and are Truth because HE IS SPIRIT and TRUTH. 8)

Context or not context that is the Truth.
Look again at the chapter that can so easily be seen to be literal.
 :)

Isa 65:20  There will not be an infant, nor an old man that has not filled his days. For the child will die a hundred years old; but the sinner who is a hundred years old will be despised.
Isa 65:21  And they will build houses and live in them; and they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
Isa 65:22  They will not build, and another live in them; they will not plant, and another eat. For like the days of a tree are the days of My people, and My elect will long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23  They will not labor in vain, nor bring forth for terror. For they are the seed of the beloved of Jehovah, and their offspring with them.
Isa 65:24  And it will be, before they call I will answer; and while they are still speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25  The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the food of the snake. They will not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, says Jehovah.

The above Scripture is not  not literal. It is  spiritual and is a reflection on the following words Ref:   excerpts from  PHYSICAL or SPIRITUAL RESURRECTION BODIES FOR THE WICKED & NON-BELIEVERS?
« on: June 14, 2008, 01:40:06 PM »

: INCORRUPTIBILITY, UNENDING EXISTENCE, GENUINENESS, IMMORTALITY, INCORRUPTION, SINCERITY, GLORY (AS VERY APPARENT GLORY), DIGNITY, GLORY, GLORIOUS, HONOR, PRAISE, WORSHIP, FORCE, MIRACULOUS POWER, ABILITY, ABUNDANCE, MIGHT, MIGHTY, WORKER OF MIRACLES, POWER, STRENGTH,  (‘violence’ only when referencing an carnal person), MIGHTY (wonderful) WORK, NON-CARNAL, ETHEREAL, SPIRIT, DIVINELY, SUPER NATURAL, REGENERATE, RELIGIOUS, SPIRITUAL
1Co 15:48-49  As is the earthy, such  ARE  they also that  ARE  earthy: and as is the heavenly, such  ARE  they also that are heavenly.  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, WE SHALL  also bear the image of the heavenly.

Notice that ONLY “we”  [God’s Elect], not “they,”  “…shall bear the image of the heavenly.”  Paul is speaking that “THEY, the earthy,” and “WE, the heavenly,” and only the “we” will “bear the image of the heavenly,” not “they,” the wicked who will be raised as tares to be burned in the Lake of Fire.
It is the “we” and the “us” that will be changed at the last trump, not the “they” and the “them.”
Is it possible to have a greater contradiction of character traits than this?  No, those who are spared death at the conclusion of this eon and will live on into the reign of Jesus Christ with their physical bodies, will not be outdone by the wicked who are raised from their graves. There will not be two communities of non-believers being judged—one in physical bodies, and those among the worst of humanity that have ever lived, being in beautiful, glorious, powerful, incorruptible, SPIRITUAL bodies.  It’s unscriptural nonsense as far as I can see.  Hope this helps your understanding a little better.

God be with you,

Ray
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 11:18:06 AM by Arcturus »
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Stacey

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2010, 01:14:48 PM »

I was just about to ask the question - Are we applying Ray's teaching 'TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD'? And then I read Marques' post. For myself, I've printed out each of the 12 principles and have been meditating on them in order to reprogram my approach to the Word. In my spirit I am convinced that this is a "bedrock" teaching that must be a part of our understanding and application of God's word. I'm confident that it will transform and re-educate us to attain the desired 'revelation understanding'.

Amen!
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Stacey

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2010, 02:45:59 PM »

I was just about to ask the question - Are we applying Ray's teaching 'TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD'? And then I read Marques' post. For myself, I've printed out each of the 12 principles and have been meditating on them in order to reprogram my approach to the Word. In my spirit I am convinced that this is a "bedrock" teaching that must be a part of our understanding and application of God's word. I'm confident that it will transform and re-educate us to attain the desired 'revelation understanding'.

Amen!

A timely reminder, gentlemen.

http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

aqrinc

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2010, 05:48:21 PM »


Read, Learn, Apply, Repeat Often. Ray has given us a great outline to follow, now we must diligently search, dig up the field, find the treasure which is literally and figuratively buried in the whole field all over it.

That is how Scripture and study of the Deep things (Lesson Plans) must be consumed, no quick fix. This Experience of evil will humble us, that is exactly what GOD Designed it to do.


Mat 13: 34-52 (CEV) Contemporary English Version.
34  Jesus used stories when he spoke to the people. In fact, he did not tell them anything without using stories.

35  So God's promise came true, just as the prophet had said, "I will use stories to speak my message and to explain things that have been hidden since the creation of the world."

36  After Jesus left the crowd and went inside, his disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the story about the weeds in the wheat field."
37  Jesus answered: The one who scattered the good seed is the Son of Man.

38  The field is the world, and the good seeds are the people who belong to the kingdom. The weed seeds are those who belong to the evil one,
39  and the one who scattered them is the devil. The harvest is the end of time, and angels are the ones who bring in the harvest.

40  Weeds are gathered and burned. That's how it will be at the end of time.
41  The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather from his kingdom everyone who does wrong or causes others to sin.
42  Then he will throw them into a flaming furnace, where people will cry and grit their teeth in pain.

Just as some are doing now in this life, while dying to this physical world.

43  But everyone who has done right will shine like the sun in their Father's kingdom. If you have ears, pay attention!

Careful, these are Spiritual things. (The flesh profits nothing). Four Parables (stories, proverbs) in a row

44  The kingdom of heaven is like what happens when someone finds treasure hidden in a field and buries it again. A person like that is happy and goes and sells everything in order to buy that field.

45  The kingdom of heaven is like what happens when a shop owner is looking for fine pearls.
46  After finding a very valuable one, the owner goes and sells everything in order to buy that pearl.

47  The kingdom of heaven is like what happens when a net is thrown into a lake and catches all kinds of fish.
48  When the net is full, it is dragged to the shore, and the fishermen sit down to separate the fish. They keep the good ones, but throw the bad ones away.

49  That's how it will be at the end of time. Angels will come and separate the evil people from the ones who have done right.
50  Then those evil people will be thrown into a flaming furnace, where they will cry and grit their teeth in pain.

Now the question below is asked of each person everyday, Like Ray teaches, pay attention to all the words. My addition, also find out what they really mean now just what they say.

51  Jesus asked his disciples if they understood all these things. They said, "Yes, we do."
52  So he told them, "Every student of the Scriptures who becomes a disciple in the kingdom of heaven is like someone who brings out new and old treasures from the storeroom."

george :).
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Silvia Martin

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2010, 10:16:08 AM »

I'm confused about the wrath of God ( seven plagues, bowls) and the judgment in the millennium.
Can someone clear that up for me, please?


    Thanks,

      Silvia
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Kat

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Re: revelation understanding needed .please!
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2010, 12:21:36 PM »


Hi Silvia,

Here are a few excerpts from articles that speak about Christ's rule and judgments on the nations.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm ---------

One other major point: Clearly this verse and others show that Christ returns "after the tribulation of those days." "But in those days, after the tribulation... shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His Elect..." (Mark 13:24 & 27). 

And Jesus is said to come in wrath:

"...hide us from the face of Him that sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of His wrath is come..." (Rev. 6:16-17)

"And the seventh angel sounded... [the seventh trump is the last trump, I Cor. 15:52] ...and Thy wrath is come..." (Rev. 11:18)

The days of "great tribulation" end at Christ's presence, and the day of "His wrath" begins at His presence. They are two separate and different events, and different judgments on different people for different purposes. If you have not seen or do not understand the absolute differences in Scripture between tribulation and affliction versus wrath and indignation, then be sure to read my ten-page section dealing with it in detail, in my paper "Exposing the Secret Rapture Theory."
v
v
INDIGNATION: "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath" (Rom. 2:08). Strong's #2372, "thumos passion, fierceness, indignation, wrath." There are several words translated indignation, but they basically mean the same thing.

Interestingly, indignation is defined as "wrath" and wrath is defined as "indignation." Notice that in our first verse on "justification," we learned that being justified saves us from wrath. That is because God is CONCILIATED to the world, and we who answer are RECONCILIATED to God through Christ which is our PROPITIATION for sins, thus our sins are REMITTED and forgiven leaving us JUSTIFIED and under no CONDEMNATION, thus we will not be appointed to INDIGNATION/WRATH (I Thes. 5:9).

http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html ----------

When God purges the hearts and minds of the wicked with His all-consuming spiritual fire, they will be UTTERLY ASHAMED! Notice what God says in Revelation 14:10 regarding anyone who is a part of this one world religious system:

"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God [seeing that "For ALL nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of HER fornication…" Rev. 18:3], which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented [UTTERLY ASHAMED—spiritual and mental torment] with the fire and brimstone [God DIVINE spiritual fire] in the presence of the holy angels, and in THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB" (Rev. 14:10).

They are going to have to face their sins and wickedness and hypocrisy, NOT in the presence of GOD ALMIGHTY, but in the presence of "the LAMB!" How embarrassing and shameful it will be for all those being purged in the God’s spiritual consuming lake of fire to see and acknowledge their whole life of sin in the very presence of the Lamb of God Who DIED FOR THEM! Every heart in the universe will melt like snow in a furnace when they face the LAMB OF GOD in their judgment!
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I think that we can all agree that the Bible uses the word "fire" in a figurative way on many occasions. I am certain that none would consider the following verses as using fire in a literal way:

                              SCRIPTURAL USE OF FIGURATIVE FIRE

"His head and His hairs were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes were as a flame of FIRE" (Rev. 1:14).

"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes though it be tarried with FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:7).

"And the tongue is a FIRE…" (James 3:6).

"And of the angels He says, Who makes His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of FIRE" (Heb. 1:7).

"Every man’s work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by FIRE; and the FIRE shall try every man’s work of what sort it is" (I Cor. 3:13).

"For our God is a consuming FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

"Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing you shall heap coals of FIRE on his head" (Rom. 12:20).

"John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I comes, the latchet of Whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with FIRE" (Luke 3:16).

"For EVERY ONE shall be salted with FIRE, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt" (Mark 9:49).

"But who may abide the day of His coming? And who shall stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s FIRE, and like fullers’ soap" (Malachi 3:2).

"…for all the earth shall be devoured with the FIRE of my jealousy" (Zeph. 3:08).

"For in My jealousy and in the FIRE of My wrath have I spoken" (Ezek. 38;19).

"From above has He sent FIRE into my bones…" (Lamentations 1:13).

"Is not My word like as a FIRE? saith the Lord" (Jer. 23:29).

"Who makes His angels spirits; His ministers a flaming FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=7414.0 -----------

Isa 13:5  They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of His indignation, to destroy the whole land.

This is a declaration of God.  God said this.  What’s He going to do?  Destroy the whole land.

Isa 13:9  Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

They’ll use Scriptures like that, and they will pull them out of context and say this is what happens to sinners, ‘He is going to destroy them out of the land.’  This is not the end!  Does this happen… will this happen?  Yes.  Is this the end?  Is this what God has declared the end?  No it is not.

Isa 30:9  That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
v. 10  Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
v. 12  Wherefore thus says the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
Isa 30:13  Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.

…And just smashes them to smithereens.  Is that the end, God’s declaration of the end of all things?  No.
Isaiah 1, a very powerful chapter.  It talks about Israel is sick, “the whole head is sick,” from the crown of the head to the balls of their feet.  Boy I’m telling you if you can’t see that in the world today…
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Isa 34:1  Come near, ye nations (what happened to Judah and Israel, now we are talking about nations…), to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.
v. 2  For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He hath utterly destroyed them, He hath delivered them to the slaughter.
v. 3  Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcasses, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
v. 4  And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falls off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

All these things are going to happen, they are prophesied events.  Notice how we left Israel and we left Judah and now we are talking about all nations, all armies and all the inhabitants of the world here.  It is broadening out isn’t it.  These are end time prophetic statements, declaration.

Isa 24:5  The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
v. 6  Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
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Now we read that this desolation is coming, it’s definitely coming.  But now we read something else. 

Isa 11:9  They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Well how about them apples.  Now without reading everything in context, context context… let me ask you something.  Was there ever a time when there was no destruction in God’s holy mountain and His seat of government and the entire earth was filled with the knowledge of God, the true knowledge of God like the waters cover the sea?  Was there ever such a time?  No.  Was there such a time when all this destruction we read about happening to Israel and Assyria?  Yes.  Then this must come afterwards.  The Bible doesn’t teach that the earth was going to be filled with the knowledge of God like the waters cover the sea and then He is going to destroy everybody.  No it’s the other way around.  God declared all of these destruction and desolation, but then we are not to the end yet and God said I have declared the end from the beginning… they shall not destroy.  There is coming a time when they will not destroy, when the knowledge of God is over the whole earth like the waters cover the sea. 

Isa 65:25  The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, says the LORD.

Has that ever happened in the history of Israel or Judah?  No it has not.  But this is a declaration of the end, it will happen.  There is coming a time. 
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Isa 2:2  And it shall come to pass (when?…) in the last days, that the mountain (that’s the government, the power)  of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains (over all the other governments and nations and strongholds), and shall be exalted above the hills (the smaller nations); and all nations shall flow unto it.

Has that ever happened?  When has that ever happened in history?  Never.  Will it happen?  God has declared it!  If He declared it and this is what is going to be in the end, then it has to be!  There is just no getting around it, it has to be.  It will come to pass.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

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