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Author Topic: I don't know what to believe.  (Read 14871 times)

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Lupac

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I don't know what to believe.
« on: February 02, 2010, 05:25:06 PM »

Maybe you guys can help me. I'm at the point now where I don't know what to believe. I've talked to Roy and Kat about this, but I figured maybe someone else could help me. I'm starting to think the the bible, isn't anymore true than any other religion's book. I want to believe the scriptures. I want to stop worrying about this and that. And despite my best efforts, I'm still afraid that no matter what I do, if I don't follow what I used to believe, God is going to be angry at me and put me in hell. For a long time, I looked for every way to validate what I believed, because if I thought anything wasn't true, I was going to hell. I tried so hard to believe, because if I didn't, it was hopeless for me. I want to believe this (Truth, what the scriptures teach.), I'm GOING to believe this. Can anyone help me? Thank you.
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arion

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2010, 05:46:12 PM »

To be honest I'm not sure how much more we can do for you.  A few weeks back you made a commitment I believe to stay off of those other sites that keep putting doubt in your mind.  Did you do that?  It all comes down to what you personally believe about God.  More than enough truth has been shown in the teachings and from the Word of God that the Christian 'Hell' is myth perpetuated by the Church.  If you believe that God is love and that we were created by him then you also have to believe that Hell is not love.  How is creating billions of creatures with a finely tuned nervous system and then knowing in advance that your going to torture the vast majority of these creatures for trillions of years love?  Quit dipping your toes in the doubt and unbelief you are finding in the world of Christendom.  If the teachings here are true then then it will be proven to you as you endure.  God himself will confirm it to your spirit.  I wish I could offer some words that would settle it for you but I can't.  Just quit dipping your bill and drinking from the pollution found in the contemporary church system and in time it will become clearer to you.
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Lupac

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2010, 05:48:36 PM »

I've haven't been anywhere else but here. Certainly not about any hell teachings. Look, maybe I should go for a while. No one can help me except God.
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Ninny

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2010, 06:46:16 PM »

Bryant, I'm just going to pray that you will find peace..without peace we are like wandering nomads, none of us us any different...Jesus said, "Peace I leave to you; my peace I give to you, not according as the world doth give do I give to you; let not your heart be troubled, nor let it be afraid;..." John14:27  YLT

We all need peace, the peace that comes from "knowing in your knower" as a friend of mine used to say...that no matter what happens to us, God has us in the palm of his hand...either God is big enough to make all things possible or He is not...no rebuke my friend, at all, just a prayer and a hope that you will find your answers and you will let God be your answer...You're not the only one, I assure you..you are not the only one to wonder if all God says is true and if there really is a God out there at all..but I pray that He will give you the peace that you need...You're such a sweet little brother and I have been praying for you... :)
I would also agree with Mark...give your all to God and let Him prove Himself to you :)
Kathy :-*

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Lupac

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2010, 07:07:23 PM »

Hello Lupac.

  Arion gave an excellent reply and his words ring true.

From your blog site.

Quote
Cannabis: I consider myself a connoisseur of all things cannabis.


I think that you should maybe clear your mind and show your Creator that you mean business when it comes to His Ways and His Truths that you so desperately seem to want to learn.

One cannot receive the things of the Spirit with a mind cluttered in worldly desires.Ask and pray with a pure heart and mind,after all, the mind is the gateway to the Spirit.

Always pray that Gods will,will be done.


Peace to you... Mark

Okay. I haven't smoked in weeks, and when I did, it was one of the few things like allowed to clear my mind to the point of not letting these things bother me. I felt closer to God because I could "push" away, in my mind, the things that bother me. But maybe you're right. (It would do me no good to argue, as I'm in no position to.) I've never been taught how to receive the Spirit. I've denied myself everything I've thought to be "bad". I'm 18 years old, and I've never even had a girl-friend. I don't go out on weekend nights, hoping to hook-up with some girl, like a lot of people I know. I feel completely alone, in everything I think and believe. Maybe, I've been trying to hard to believe. I can't relax though. Even now, I feel like, I wouldn't say guilt, but that uneasy feeling you get, when you're in a uncomfortable situation? I feel like that right now, and most of every day, all day. I'm thinking about going back to my old doctor. Maybe he can help me...

Ninny, thank you. You've helped me so much. I can't bring myself to trust and love God. I try to, I pray, everyday that He'd help me.
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Ninny

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2010, 07:20:51 PM »

Bryant, sweetheart this is the reason I pray for you..because the feeling of hopelessness comes over me for you, not because I don't think God can help you, but because YOU haven't learned to trust Him yet..Since I have learned that God is an awesome Father who loves his children beyond all understanding...It is always my prayer that everyone who has trouble believing will also come to know and trust God as a Father who loves us! :)
Kathy \o/  ;)
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arion

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2010, 07:37:41 PM »

Most people your age are not concerned whatsoever about God or about knowing the truth of things.  If you had no desire at all about God then none of the things your dealing with would bother you as you wouldn't even been thinking about it.  Reflecting back when I was your age I spent some time tip toeing through some of the cults.  I read about Armstrongism, the jw's, the mormons, and the various Christian denominations and I as well was somewhat confused because they all contradicted each other.  It's simply going to take time for these things to shake out for you and unfortunately there are things in life that there are no short cuts to.

We can point you towards a lot of things that prove that the scriptures are true.  We have many hours of teachings here from Ray using the scriptures that prove the things that are said.  You said 'No one can help me except God,' and your absolutely right.  We can show you these things but God is going to have to open your heart to them.  The best suggestion I can make for something that you can actually 'do' (and this is something I do almost every day) is to download the audio teachings and try to listen as often as possible.  If the things that Ray is teaching us is true then the more we look into them (the teachings) will prove that what we are taught is the truth.  If what Ray teaches is in error then the more we look into them and compare them with the scriptures will show they are in error.  I've been around the block many times in my Christian searching for faith and I can tell you that I find truth here consistantly.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 07:39:20 PM by Arion »
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Kat

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2010, 07:48:18 PM »


Lupac, your greatest fear seems to be of going to hell, so let's review what this doctrine is all about.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-C.html -----

I said that "everlasting punishment" is NOT SCRIPTURAL, but is based on the Latin word aeternus which comes directly out of the Catholic Vulgate Bible.

Satan is a master at what he does, and what he does is DECEIVE (Rev. 12:9). How could Satan get the entire Church of Christ to believe in and worship the rank paganism of sinful Egypt? By writing manuscripts discrediting God’s Word?  By getting men to accuse God falsely? By getting a bunch of kids to start churches of Satanism? No, nothing so elaborate. Such things are but smoke screens. All Satan did to change the ENTIRE Word of God from something meaningful and marvelous into something dreadful and deplorable, was to change the meaning of one little word. ONE WORD, would "deceive the WHOLE WORLD" (Rev. 12:9).

The doctrine came from Egypt, from where it was borrowed by the Greeks, and passed on to the Romans. In order for the Catholic Church to hold on to this pagan doctrine, so as to have almost supernatural power over the people by the use of this fear doctrine, they found it needful to find a way to interject this most damnable of all pagan doctrines, into the very translation of the Scriptures themselves. This is the single most egregious sin against "man adding unto the things of God’s word" in the history of God’s recorded word.
v
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All of the worst religious teachings of pagan Rome, are still in the Christian Church. The major Christian doctrines of, who is man, what is man, what is man’s purpose on earth, and what is man’s eternal destiny, are believed by Catholics and Protestants alike, and all of them are pagan to the core. And all of them came from pagan Egypt, through pagan Greece, through pagan Rome, into the Church of Rome, through the King James Bible, and into the homes and lives of billions of unsuspecting Christians worldwide.
v

                                KEEPING THE DUMB SHEEP DUMB

Since none of these things which the Jews of Jesus’ day believed were taught in the Law of Moses, just where did the Jews learn of these pagan doctrines?

Most theologians are clearly deceived, however, not all are ignorant. Many theologians know at least some of the material I am presenting to you. But they don’t want you to know or understand any of it. It has been the purpose of the ruling privileged elite to keep the masses at bay by evil indoctrinations, deceptions, and gross fear.
v
v
The whole thing is designed for effect, to influence the multitude, to restrain their passions, and to aid the magistrate and ruler in keeping them subject to authority. It is the invention of priests and lawmakers, who take this as the easiest method of governing the people. They claim the "right divine" to govern; claim that their laws originate with the gods, as we have shown above; and that, therefore, the gods will visit on all offenders the terrors and tortures of the damned. Hence, through the joint cunning of priest and legislator, of church and state, mutually supporting each the other, we have all the stupendous frauds and falsehoods respecting the invisible world."

                  HISTORIANS ACKNOWLEDGE THE INVENTION OF PAGANISM

Polybius, the historian, says:

"Since the multitude is ever fickle, full of lawless desires, irrational passions and violence, there is no other way to keep them in order but by the fear and terror of the invisible world; on which account our ancestors seem to me to have acted judiciously, when they contrived to bring into the popular belief these notions of the gods, and of the infernal regions." B. vi 56.

Dionysius Halicarnassus treats the whole matter as useful, but not as true. Antiq. Rom., B. ii Livy, the celebrated historian, speaks of it in the same spirit; and he praises the wisdom of Numa, because he invented the fear of the gods, as "a most efficacious means of governing an ignorant and barbarous populace." Hist., I 19.
v
v
Plato, in his commentary on Timaeus, fully endorses what he says respecting the fabulous invention of these foreign torments.

And Strabo says that "Plato and the Brahmins of India invented fables concerning the future judgments of hell" (Hades).

And Chrysippus blames Plato for attempting to deter men from wrong by frightful stories of future punishments.

Plato himself is exceedingly inconsistent, sometimes adopting, even in his serious discourses, the fables of the poets, and at other times rejecting them as utterly false, and giving too frightful views of the invisible world. Sometimes, he argues, on social grounds, that they are necessary to restrain bad men from wickedness and crime, and then again he protests against them on political grounds, as intimidating the citizens, and making cowards of the soldiers, who, believing these things, are afraid of death, and do not therefore fight well. But all this shows in what light he regarded them; not as truths, certainly, but as fictions, convenient in some cases, but difficult to manage in others.

Plutarch treats the subject in the same way; sometimes arguing for them with great solemnity and earnestness, and on other occasions calling them "fabulous stories, the tales of mothers and nurses."

Seneca says:
"Those things which make the infernal regions terrible, the darkness, the prison, the river of flaming fire, the judgment seat, &c., are all a fable, with which the poets amuse themselves, and by them agitate us with vain terrors." Sextus Empiricus calls them "poetic fables of hell;" and Cicero speaks of them as "silly absurdities and fables" (ineptiis ac fabulis).

Aristotle.
"It has been handed down in mythical form from earliest times to posterity, that there are gods, and that the divine (Deity) compasses all nature. All beside this has been added, after the mythical style, for the purpose of persuading the multitude, and for the interests of the laws, and the advantage of the state." Neander's Church Hist., I, p. 7. 11

Another quote from Thomas Thayer’s paper on The Doctrine of Everlasting Punishment:
"Anyone at all familiar with the writings of the ancient Greeks or Romans, [who admittedly received their basis doctrine of hell from Egypt] cannot fail to note how often it is admitted by them that the national religions were the INVENTIONS OF THE LEGISLATOR AND THE PRIES, for the purpose of governing and restraining the common people [commonly called ‘dumb sheep’]."

Hence Augustine [considered by many to be the greatest theologian in history] says, in his ‘City of God,’
"This seems to have been done on no other account, but as it was the business of princes, out of their wisdom and civil prudence, to DECEIVE THE PEOPLE IN THEIR RELIGION; princes, under the name of religion, persuaded the people to believe those things true, which they themselves KNEW TO BE IDLE FABLES; by this means, for their own ease in government, tying them the more closely to civil society." (All CAPS emphasis is mine).

My, how well this religious deception of the masses continues to be in the 21st century.

                             THE CHRISTIANIZATION OF PAGANISM

When I say that virtually all of the doctrines and traditions of the Church are from pagan sources, I am not exaggerating. There are dozens of things that are pagan within the Church of Christendom today.
------------------------------------------------------------------

There is so much to sort out in the articles at BT, but I'm just trying to give you a bit of reality to think about.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 08:09:11 PM by Kat »
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Samson

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2010, 07:48:55 PM »

I've haven't been anywhere else but here. Certainly not about any hell teachings. Look, maybe I should go for a while. No one can help me except God.

Lupac,

           Arions reply was thorough and covers the Spiritual part of it. I wonder if you might benefit from professional help, maybe you have some sort of anxiety disorder, I think you mentioned that you have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in another Thread, a while back. The vibes I'm getting from reading your Posts for the last six months is you are excessively overcome by Fear and Anxiety to an unhealthy extent. Everything Spiritual: The answering of questions; Ray's thorough information and more than ample proof that you won't get punished in some fashion "Eternally" doesn't seem to be enough, because intellectually, you seem to understand these things, but not emotionally. A Professional may be able to help you with your Seratonin Levels to lesson your overwhelming anxiety, you might have a chemical imbalance. I didn't write this to offend or belittle you, I've had problems with Depression and Anxiety myself(Ritalin helped me), in the past and so has my Wife, it's nothing to be ashamed of either, but you "might" benefit from some help.

                               Take Care, Samson.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 07:51:57 PM by Samson »
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Lupac

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2010, 08:02:25 PM »

Samson, thank you. I've told some of these things to Kat, but now, I'll say it to all of you. About a year ago, around Christmas, I had a really bad "break-down". At the time, I was worried that Satan was really "god" and I needed to start worshiping him. I ended up, going to a hospital after I told me parents I had thought about killing myself. It was a big mistake, my parents agreed with me, and... I have to go to work now. I'll explain more when I get home. In the end, I found a doctor that really helped me, but I never got free. I never tried taking any medication, or anything for it. I know intellectually, what's true and what isn't. If you put me up against a regular "ETer" I could probably wipe the floor with them. But that's not what I'm interested it.

Another thing that worries me is that the scriptures themselves aren't true. But more on that later. Thank you.
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darren

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2010, 02:06:51 AM »

Lupac: when I first was brought here by way of the Lord I read every paper Ray wrote here at BT. I read for weeks straight. There was so much new info that totally contradicted my belief system that I was blown away. Then after mos of studying I went into a sensory overload. I started think, how could billions of people be wrong and this one guy Ray is right. How in the world does he know the Truth and all the churches and pastors do not. Arion hit the nail on the head. "If the things that Ray is teaching us is true then the more we look into them (the teachings) will prove that what we are taught is the truth.  If what Ray teaches is in error then the more we look into them and compare them with the scriptures will show they are in error". The truth will show itself. Once it does you will not be able to denied it. You will know in your heart and mind. You will feel the Truth in you being. Maby you need to take a step back, regroup, take a break, give your brain a rest. Hey Lupac, this is just my opinion for what it's worth. we wrestle against spirits and principalities. Satan does not want you to believe in the True Word of God. God is not the author of confusion, it is the devils work. The more you come to know the Truth the more Satan will try to wrestle you away. He is most happy keeping you in the dark. Remember, he is the great deceiver.


Darren
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mmijares

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2010, 02:15:44 AM »

Quote from: Lupac
I'm starting to think the the bible, isn't anymore true than any other religion's book

Another thing that worries me is that the scriptures themselves aren't true. But more on that later. Thank you.

I would like to help you to appreciate the Scripture more.  But first, could you tell us why you (are beginning to) think that the Bible isn't true?

-Mijares
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Lupac

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2010, 02:52:54 AM »

Okay, I'm back from work. I'm definitely going to seek some help. I know what's true, but I can't "feel" what's true, if that makes any sense. Once I have some money, I'll call my old doctor. I might try some medication this time. (I've never taken any "drugs" for any problem. (A plant is not a drug. (Okay, maybe it is.)))

darren, thank you for your concern. I, don't really believe in a literal devil/Satan anymore. I know many of you will disagree with me, that's fine. I'm here to learn, not to teach my position. If Satan is real, then he's powerless to anything except what God allows him to, so it really doesn't matter if he exists or not, in my mind.

mmijares, I had all of this thought out earlier, before I went to work. Now it's all kind of vague. It's a lot of things, all the books not seeming to agree with each other, (2 Kings 10:30 - Hosea 1:4, for example) things Jehovah/Jesus did in the OT that seem, really, um... horrible. (barbaric, maybe?). There are some other things, but maybe it would be better to message me, rather then discuss them here. (Although, the fact that Jesus will save all men puts things into better perspective.)

Also, if anyone could answer my question here, I'd be very grateful:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11323.0.html

I need to get out of my parent's house. But even then, I'll be close by, and I'll need to explain to them why I won't be attending church anymore, that won't be fun. They're very caught up in Babylon. We go to church every Sunday, my Mom listens to "American Family Radio" all the time, we have R.C. Sproul JR's "Every Thought Captive" magazines in the house. They're also very caught up in the political system. They don't understand why I'm not worried about anything that's going on in D.C. I tried telling them once that God is in control of everything, and we shouldn't be worried about anything Washington does. They told me I was passive, just like our/their preacher. (They butt heads all the time.)

Back to me. God willing, I will make it out of this. Thank you all.

Edit: Just to clarify, I have no regrets about not doing wrong things. I WANT to do the right thing. I want to please God. But I want to KNOW that God, as He's written in the bible, is real.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 03:25:45 AM by Lupac »
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darren

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2010, 03:36:35 AM »

Lupac after reading your last post I can see why your confused and troubled ???. As your learning the True Word of God with Rays teachings your also still in the Babylonian system. That's enough to make ones head explode. I'll just add one thing and say no more on this subject. As sure as God created The heavens and earth as He created His only begotten Son Jesus Christ The Saviour of the world and all the angles in the heavens, He surely did create Satan the god of this world. I am not good at quoting scripture but I know there are scriptures saying it is so. Maby somebody here can show us where they're at. 2 cor 4:4 check it out.

Darren
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 03:55:29 AM by darren »
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Ninny

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2010, 03:48:03 AM »

Bryant, I am believing that God is watching over you..I am believing with you and for you, I am going to keep praying for you I can't do anthing,but God..and I know He's real..can. He can prove Himself to you. Not by performing great big miracles, but through the still, small voice, He can calm your fears and quiet your anxieties..when you are really ready He will do it..
Kathy  :)
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aqrinc

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2010, 03:55:20 AM »


Hi Lupac,

There is no such thing as The Bible; there are literally hundreds of Bible translations. I use over 40 different translations everyday, then still need The Spirit Of Truth to understand.

Bibles contain man's translations of The Scripture, each version with it own areas of editing, most times innocent mistakes, but sometimes deliberate attempts to deceive.

I pulled some Scripture out for you to take a careful look and read of, First bit of Information about fear.


2Ti 1:7 (Rotherham)
For God hath not given us a spirit of cowardice, but of power, and love, and correction.

2Ti 1:7 (CLV)
for God gives us, not a spirit of timidity, but of power and of love and of sanity."

2Ti 1:7-10 (CEV) Contemporary English Version
7  God's Spirit doesn't make cowards out of us. The Spirit gives us power, love, and self-control.

8  Don't be ashamed to speak for our Lord. And don't be ashamed of me, just because I am in jail for serving him. Use the power that comes from God and join with me in suffering for telling the good news.

9  God saved us and chose us to be his holy people. We did nothing to deserve this, but God planned it because he is so kind. Even before time began God planned for Christ Jesus to show kindness to us.

10  Now Christ Jesus has come to show us the kindness of God. Christ our Savior defeated death and brought us the good news. It shines like a light and offers life that never ends.

2Co 11: 13-15 (MKJV)
13  For such ones are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14  Did not even Satan marvelously transform himself into an angel of light?
15  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.

Verse 2 to 5 below is all one sentence, pay attention to what it says.

2Ti 3:1-9 (DRB)1899 Douay Rheims Bible
1  Know also this, that in the last days shall come dangerous times.

2  Men shall be lovers of themselves, covetous, haughty, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, wicked,
3  Without affection, without peace, slanderers, incontinent, unmerciful, without kindness,
4  Traitors, stubborn, puffed up, and lovers of pleasure more than of God:
5  Having an appearance indeed of godliness but denying the power thereof. Now these avoid.

6  For of these sort are they who creep into houses and lead captive silly women laden with sins, who are led away with divers desires:
7  Ever learning, and never attaining to the knowledge of the truth.

8  Now as Jannes and Mambres resisted Moses, so these also resist the truth, men corrupted in mind, reprobate concerning the faith.

9  But they shall proceed no farther: for their folly shall be manifest to all men, as theirs also was.

Again read carefully All the words below several times.

2Ti 3:16-17 (DRB)
All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice:
17  That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.

This was supposed to be short, sorry it is a bit longer than first intended.

george :).

  
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Lupac

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2010, 04:13:10 AM »

Thank you all, I'll read your replies in the morning. I'm going to bed now. darren, it would take WAY to long, and would be teaching something Ray is not for, which is against the rules, why I believe what I do about the devil. Let's just leave it at that, okay? (All those scriptures are true, I believe. But I don't believe they're pointing to a literal entity called "Satan". They aren't to be taken literally.) Thanks again.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2010, 06:15:38 AM »

You have already been given some heartfelt food for thought in this thread Lupac.
You are a very special young man. God has not put you into your circumstances for nothing. You are not the son of parents to whom God has not yet given the understanding of His truth to no plan or purpose. On the contrary.

It has to be very painful for you to feel so isolated. If I can just re-call for you that Elijah felt the same way and God assured him that he was not alone.
We are scattered. Your brethren are scattered. If I could put literal arms around you and help you to feel the warmth that you are loved, I would. So I put my spiritual arms around you through words of this post. God does the same, through the Word of His Son.

after the fire was a still, small voice.
1Ki 19:13  And it happened when Elijah heard, he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out, and stood at the cave entrance. And behold, a voice came to him and said, What are you doing here, Elijah?

1Ki 19:14  And he said, I have been very zealous for Jehovah, the God of Hosts, because the sons of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, have thrown down Your altars, and have slain Your prophets with the sword. And I, I alone, am left. And they seek to take my life away.

2Co 5:2  For indeed in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our dwelling-place out of Heaven;
2Co 5:4  For we who are in this tabernacle groan, being burdened; inasmuch as we do not wish to be unclothed, but to be clothed, so that the mortal might be swallowed up by the life.

Rom 8:23  And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, awaiting adoption, the redemption of our body.

Arc
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 06:17:30 AM by Arcturus »
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Lupac

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2010, 03:15:46 PM »

Okay, I've been thinking about what you guys have posted. I'm doing better, I just have to keep going. Here's a question, did Ray ever explain this verse? 1 Cor. 10:11

Quote
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The word for world there is "aions" ages. What does that mean? The way I've had it explained, is that Paul here was alluding to the Jewish apocryphal books, and he was saying there are no more ages for those in Christ. This, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Thanks.
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Kat

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Re: I don't know what to believe.
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2010, 03:32:31 PM »


Hi Lupac,

Here is an excerpt from the article 'Twelve Truths to Understanding His Word.'

http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm ------

                                           TRUTH NUMBER 8

[A] "Now ALL these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for OUR ADMONITION [to reprove, caution, warn, remind of obligation or duty, etc.], upon whom the ends of the world [‘eons—ages’] are come" (I Cor. 10:11).

[B ] "Now these things were OUR EXAMPLES, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted" (I Cor. 10:6).

[C] "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for OUR LEARNING…" (Rom. 15:4).

It is essential that we study the Old Testament Scriptures, for they are often the only key to the New Testament Scriptures. Paul used the Hebrew Scriptures to teach the foolish Galatians the New Covenant promises. Here’s but one great example:

"Tell me, you that desire to be under the law, do you not HEAR the law? For it is written [in Old Covenant Scriptures] that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the FLESH; but he of the freewoman was by PROMISE. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which genders [gives birth] to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar IS mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

"But the Jerusalem which is above is free, which IS the mother of us all.

For it is written, ‘Rejoice, you barren that bear not; break forth and cry, you that travail not: for the desolate has many more children than she which has an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

"Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman SHALL NOT be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not the children of the bondwoman, but of the free." (Gal. 4:21-31).

This is not only an allegory, but it is an allegory containing many metaphors as well. An allegory is when characters or events (such as Sarah and Agar and their children) represent abstract or spiritual ideas or principles. A metaphor is when one thing is said to be something else. (such as Agar actually being mount Sinai, which then represents or corresponds to Jerusalem in bondage). It may seem a little complicated at first, but once one sees all of the aspects of the allegory explained, this principle is quite easy to understand. Nevertheless, it does require the Spirit of God to believe it. It is this very fact (that the Church does not understand or believe this allegory) that the Church continues to believe that God’s true chosen people are STILL, "the children of the bondwoman"—"Jerusalem which NOW IS" over there in the State of Israel. Unbelievable.

This dear reader, is how the Old Covenant was written for "OUR admonition…"

Does anyone believe that this is the ONLY "allegory" in the Old Testament which is written for OUR admonition. Hardly—the Old Testament is FILLED with such allegories, but who has "ears to hear and eyes to see?" And "who will believe our report?" The whole book of Revelation is explained in the Old Testament Scriptures, but the theologians of this world do not and cannot discern it. They all teach that Revelation is a book of end-time, end-of-the-world eschatology. They have not a clue.

Paul constantly referred to the Old Testament Scriptures in his epistles, and he taught the whole plan of salvation from the Old Testament Scriptures, as they were the only Scriptures available during his ministry.

"And that from a child you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus" (II Tim. 3:15).

These same Scriptures were now able to make Timothy wise unto salvation, but not until he first learned about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament Scriptures. These were the Scriptures that Jesus caused His apostles to understand after His resurrection:

What Jesus taught from the Old Testament Scriptures during His ministry was not even the tip of the iceberg.

The Truth of God, "thou shall surely die," and the lie of the Devil, "you shall NOT surely die," is for "our admonition." The story of Cain and Able is for "our admonition." The story of the flood is for "our admonition." The story of Babel is for "our admonition." The promises to Abraham and the meaning of faith are for "our admonition." The entire story in every single detail of Joseph and his brothers is for "our admonition." Do you wear your "coat of many colors," or do you hide it in the closet? You say: "What coat of many colors?"

Forget it—ask you pastor why he has never taught you how to wear your coat of many colors?

If you cannot identify yourself, personally, with all the stories and accounts in the Old Testament, then you have not even begun to overcome all the carnality that you are.
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Have you not read:

"Unto whom it was revealed, that NOT unto themselves, but unto US [‘Now ALL these things happened unto them for examples, and they are written for OUR admonition, upon whom the ends of the eons are come’ I Cor. 10:11] they did minister the things, which are now reported unto YOU by them that have preached the gospel unto YOU with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. Wherefore gird up the loins of YOUR mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the GRACE that is to be brought unto YOU [not ‘them’—they DIED not receiving the promises made to them] at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:12-13).
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 05:07:26 PM by Kat »
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