> General Discussions
Who is our enemy?
Roy Martin:
Hi John,
I'll answer only one of your questions of which I speak for myself. Yes! I think it would be ok for me to protect my family and myself even if it meant taking a life in the process. It isn't something I would want to happen, but I don't think it would be wrong in any way. God never told us to let someone kill us or a family member. Police officers do it all the time and its right that they do it to protect others from being harmed.
My statement is me, of what I feel. I don't expect anyone to agree or disagree, but this post isn't about killing people. The title is, (Who is the enemy) as in spiritual enemy. My statement was clear that it wasn't about killing people.
Please don't let it go there and get this thread locked down.
I have gained a lot from this topic of Who is the Enemy, not whether its okay to kill people.
Roy
Deborah-Leigh:
--- Quote ---this post isn't about killing people
--- End quote ---
You make a valid point Roy also about knowing where and how you stand before God which is between you and God just as what I feel or what anyone else feels is also between them and God. :)
How did Samson feel when he said Jdg 16:30 ……… Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.
The last thing Zedekiah’s eyes saw was the death of his sons after which he was put in prison till the day of his death. Only God knows what He did to Zedekiah’s heart and mind during that time. We have a glimpse. The experience of evil, humbles us.
2Ki 25:7 And they slew the sons of Zedekiah before his eyes, and put out the eyes of Zedekiah, and bound him with fetters of brass, and carried him to Babylon.
God has given us a better plan.
Heb 11:39 All these people (OT faithful and prophets )won approval for their faith but did not receive what was promised,
Heb 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that they would not become perfect without us.
Both Zedekiah and his sons and Samson and the Prophets are dead. We are alive and speculating and contending, is fruitless.
The best is yet to come either with or without us. With us, we are found watching after the fruit of His Spirit which is Love, Joy, Peace, Kindness, Goodness, Gentleness, Faithfulness, Endurance and Patience. Without which He comes as a thief in the night. The Best that returns to us, is Christ. 8)
Arc
Roy Martin:
Ark, I must admit that you are a blessing.
Roy
Roy Martin:
Thank you John for clarifying. Forgive me that it seems I was offended, because I promise I wasn't, nor did I intend to offend you. Okay! now that we have that out of the way.
I can only speak for myself in regard to your question, Can a NT follower of Jesus take a life?
Well it has never occurred to me that I might be an elect., but I think I can say that it would take the power of God to keep his elect from taking a life. We can only do, and not do, by His power and intentions.
I think I'll wait for the more mature to answer your question, but first I'll say that murder isn't the same as defending your life or someone else, at least not the way I see it and understand. Since God is in complete control of everything then I'd say the elect won't have to worry about taking a life, but if they did then that's just the way it was meant to be. It wasn't meant to be for His disciples to take a life. Its up to God.
I say I would take a life, but God could keep me from it.
Peace
Roy
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on February 26, 2010, 05:56:01 PM ---I ask the question because God's Elect will be Kings and Priests in the Kingdom ruling over others. When those we lead and are responsible for, come to us and ask a simple question, "can a follower of Jesus take a life?" What will our answer be? It seems a simple and basic question? There should be a simple and straightforward answer.
Again, I do not want to throw off your topic.
Peace, John
--- End quote ---
John,
I understand the question but the reasoning behind it seems a bit off. Who has said anything about anyone 'coming to us' and asking questions in the Day of the Lord? Christ always SENT His disciples to look after His flock...Paul did not set up shop in 1 town and have the nations come and ask him questions.
Members,
As far as taking another person's life...what does the scriptures say? The hypothetical discussion of whether or not to use self-defense or violent force never leads to an edifying conclusion. The only thing it does is show how carnal we ALL still are as we quote scriptures by the dozen all over the forum but when a 'hard' scenario is presented, we just toss those same scriptures to the wind.
If anyone disagrees, please simply email Ray...this is his teaching grounds and it is pointless for everyone to try to justify their own opinions in this matter. The forum has 'been there, done that' in regards to this subject.
Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2701.msg20050.html#msg20050):
Hello Ray,
Cheers to your spreading the truth! I really admire someone with intelligence.
A quick question, please. If we are to love our enemy, does that mean we should not defend ourselves?
Scenario: A person breaks into your house and attacks your family. Should we not fight off the attack?
Thank you, Matt
Dear Matt:
That's a fair question, and I do not wish to offend you in any way for asking it, but let me use your email as a teaching tool for others as well, okay? I really hate answering hypothetical questions. Five minutes ago while having my coffee and watcing the morning new, Chris Wallace asked Jim Baker, "IF the President were to put YOU in charge of negotiations between the US and Iran, how would you go about it?" Mr. Baker said: "The President won't put me in charge, so I won't be doing any negotiations." When asked a second time, he replied, "I don't answer hypothetical questions.."
I have seen people backed into corners over hypothetical questions. Not that you are doing that, but if I were to put say some "limitation" on the amount of force to be used in this hypothetical family attack, let's say "hypothetically 5 pounds" of force, then the question would be, "But what if the situation reqauired 5 pounds and 1 ounce to be administered?" What about 5 pounds and 2 ounces? 3 ounces? What if it were a situation in which one had to shoot a person in the head with a 57 Magnum or your whole family would die? Would you shoot him? What if your family would die and the whole city with them, unless you personally would SHOOT this person? "What if one shot in the head would SAVE THE WHOLE WORLD, would you do it, Ray?"
You know what? I don't think I want to answer hypothetical questions either. God said that we should not try to rehearse in our minds just what we would say if brought before a board of persecutors, neither do I think we need to try and rehearse what we would do if someone broke into our home. You don't know what you would do, number one, and most would not follow my advice anyway, number two. Jesus didn't say: "If a bully strikes your little girl on her right cheeck, turn to him the left cheek of your daughter also," now did He? Although, someone will now probably ask, "But what would you do, Ray, if that happened?" You know it is possible to physically defend oneself and one's family without "hating" the offender.
Trust me when I say that if it has not yet happened, it will, when your faith with be tried in a way that is just between you and your God, and there won't even be time to send me an email. Bottom line: Don't try to come up with 'hypothetical' situations in which you think that the laws of God and the ways of God would not be fair, or practical, or logical, and therefore would have to be changed, altered, or just totally thrown away as useless in practical, real life situations. The shame is that many people who have used alternative measures to God's ways, and have failed in so doing, will never know how things would have been different had they just trusted God in the first place. It is oh so true, that "we learn obedience by the things WE SUFFER."
God be with you,
Ray
Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1516.msg12843.html#msg12843):
What do you believe the bible says about personal self defense? If you can not answer me now I would like to see something on your site in the future. Thank you.
Dear Michael:
The Bible says: "But I say unto you, That ye RESIST NOT EVIL, but whosoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matt. 5:39).
God be with you,
Ray
Thanks,
Marques
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