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Meaning Of Theos
Samson:
Timely Email,
On a previous Thread that was locked for obvious reasons(Did God The Father have a Beginning), one of our Brothers from the Forum, namely Darren asked this question of Ray and the answer regarding God having or not having a beginning is answered quite nicely and is supported by the meaning of the Greek word Theos which means "Placer" and "Disposer." He(God) can't be a Placer of something if He had a beginning. Prior to learning anything about Universalism and my subsequent discovery of this Site, I never knew that "Theos" meant Disposer or Placer and it was a very important and enlightening discovery for me. I always knew that Theos didn't have to necessarily refer to Jesus or God The Father, as the Scriptures state that there are "many gods and many lords" and that human judges can be and are called "gods." (1Cor. 8:5 & John. 10:34,35). God is Spirit and God wasn't a Father until He begat Jesus. Anyway thanks to Darren for asking the question and for Ray's timely response. This Email was just Posted and is presented below in blue for all to review and comment on.
A Beginning
« on: Today at 08:52:49 AM »
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Greentings Ray. frist of all I must tell you that we at BT are praying for you everyday. You are never far from our hearts. You have touched so many of us in so many ways. Thank you for your courage and your teachings. Now for my question and I will keep it very short. But Iyou are the only one I can trust with an ansewer . Here's my question and someone at BT brought this to my intention. Did God our Father have a beginning?? It's a question that I have never thought of before. The man made doctrin (churches) teach that God always exsited. I know and you teach that if the church teaches it it probable false. I will leave it there. I know you must be tired. You have alot on your plate. We all will keep praying for you and your family.
Thank you,
Darren
Dear Darren: Thank you for your concern over my health (or lack thereof).
Your question may be "short," but it is not specific. I realize how difficult
for most to "pay close attention to all the words."
You ask whether "God our Father" had a beginning? You then suggest that the churches teach that
"God always existed." Which is your question? Did "God the FATHER" have a beginning or did 'GOD"
have a beginning. See the difference? We must make a distinction, as there is a distinction.
The phrase "God the Father" is nowhere found in the O.T. Hebrew Scriptures, only in the N.T. Greek (Ex: John 6:27).
"GOD" (Who is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ) has always existed and did not have a beginning.
However, God as a "FATHER," did have a beginning. One cannot be a father unless He is a "parent," for that
is one of the main definitions of a "father" in the Greek language. God has conceived a Son, and from that
time He became a FATHER with a Child--the beginning of His FAMILY.
God means "placer or disposer." God is not a "placEE" or a "disposEE." God the PlacER was never placED
So: "GOD" as the original supreme Being of the universe did not have a beginning.
But God "THE FATHER" of our Lord Jesus Christ did not become the "FATHER" until He became the Father
and Spiritual Parent of Jesus Christ. Hope this helps clear up your discussion.
God be with you,
Ray
Kind Regards, Samson.
OBrenda:
Thanks for sharing that, enjoyed it.
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Samson
The person who brought this “question” – challenge, asking if there was any Scriptural proof, into the Forum, brought this discussion into the PM lines, not only with me, but I have reason to believe other/s too. The arduous exercise of addressing the concerns that Scripture does/doesn’t prove God had no beginning, went unhindered for five consecutive days when finally, and I am sad to say, not on the Godly merit of His Word in scriptural evidence, but by scientific observation, it was reckoned that God indeed, does not have a beginning. I felt that this was a real let down, shabby end to a sharp, intelligent and astutely contested enquiry after the truth.
I learnt from experience, that Faith cannot be proved but it can be rigorously contested. :D Certainly my faith was tested and I felt despondent that the conclusion to the duel of questions was to let the intensity of inquiry, go away empty handed but for scientific evidence. I was not happy.
Then as Ray showed that there right in the word GOD, is the answer! Five days of my long line of answering questions that did little but to thoroughly test my own faith and endurance, were elegantly and decisively trumped by Ray Smith with his stylishly neat and concise reply that paid due attention and regard for the Word of God!
By experience I see where I went wrong and that has been a great learning experience that has been indelibly personal and of great advantage to me. I hope not to forget!
We are practicing to apply and learning to comprehend, what we have so richly been blessed to receive in Truth and in Application, in the meantime. We have a two fold task that is not simply one of agreeing with what we read, but applying the truths we are given. It is not easy either. :)
Arc
Samson:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on February 13, 2010, 10:28:54 AM ---Hello Samson
The person who brought this “question” – challenge, asking if there was any Scriptural proof, into the Forum, brought this discussion into the PM lines, not only with me, but I have reason to believe other/s too. The arduous exercise of addressing the concerns that Scripture does/doesn’t prove God had no beginning, went unhindered for five consecutive days when finally, and I am sad to say, not on the Godly merit of His Word in scriptural evidence, but by scientific observation, it was reckoned that God indeed, does not have a beginning. I felt that this was a real let down, shabby end to a sharp, intelligent and astutely contested enquiry after the truth.
I learnt from experience, that Faith cannot be proved but it can be rigorously contested. :D Certainly my faith was tested and I felt despondent that the conclusion to the duel of questions was to let the intensity of inquiry, go away empty handed but for scientific evidence. I was not happy.
Then as Ray showed that there right in the word GOD, is the answer! Five days of my long line of answering questions that did little but to thoroughly test my own faith and endurance, were elegantly and decisively trumped by Ray Smith with his stylishly neat and concise reply that paid due attention and regard for the Word of God!
By experience I see where I went wrong and that has been a great learning experience that has been indelibly personal and of great advantage to me. I hope not to forget!
We are practicing to apply and learning to comprehend, what we have so richly been blessed to receive in Truth and in Application, in the meantime. We have a two fold task that is not simply one of agreeing with what we read, but applying the truths we are given. It is not easy either. :)
Arc
--- End quote ---
Hi Deb,
I received one Pm inquiry from the individual in question regarding this Topic( did God the Father have a beginning), but decided not to respond, because it just seemed like it would lead to senseless debates and a waste of time for both the inquirer and for me. Besides, I thought there was already adequate support for our position and Marques spent ample time in discussing this Topic with the PM option, too. Of course, prior to Ray's Email response, I never considered that God as a Father had a beginning when he begat Jesus, so much for me paying attention to the words, ;).
Kind Regards, Samson.
ARisingSon:
Samson,
Regarding Ray's response to Warren, if God (El Elyon?) did not become THE FATHER till Mary conceived Jesus Christ wouldn't that mean there was no Son till then? And if that be true, who were Elohim, El Shaddai and Yahweh in the Old Testament? Grace be with you. Earl
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