Samson,
Regarding Ray's response to Warren, if God (El Elyon?) did not become THE FATHER till Mary conceived Jesus Christ wouldn't that mean there was no Son till then? And if that be true, who were Elohim, El Shaddai and Yahweh in the Old Testament? Grace be with you. Earl
Hi Earl, after reading and re-reading Ray's response to Darren, I do not see where he (Ray) said anything about Mary. But I do know where Ray has said when Jesus was conceived.
Excerpt from Nashville Conference 2008 - audio #7, 8a, 8b, 9 and 10
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http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8385.0.htmlJesus said “I came out from Thee.” Where did Jesus come from? Did He come out of the Virgin Mary, is that where Jesus really came from? No. I mean I know that people believe that is where Jesus came from, out of the Virgin Mary. He did, but He was before that. Jesus plainly says “I came out from Thee,” the Father. He came out of the Father and He was before He became the Messiah. He was sent to be the Messiah from back in the Old Testament times.
It plainly says He was conceived of or by the Holy Spirit of God the Father. We’re in John 17:8, back up a couple verses and Christ says,
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.
He was glorified in His Father before there was a world, it says so. In Philippians it said He was made.
Php 2:7 But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
It means emptied. He emptied Himself of His divinity and became in the form of man. That isn’t where He came from, He didn’t originate in a human baby. He emptied Himself into a little baby to become in the form of a man.
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Hope this helps
Peace, G.Driggs