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Author Topic: We were THEM  (Read 4186 times)

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Deborah-Leigh

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We were THEM
« on: February 08, 2010, 12:27:20 PM »

I received the blessing and honor to respond to questions presented to me by a member of the Forum, through the PM lines. I believe you may enjoy  the answers that form a testimony.  If you want Scriptures or edifications expounded and published by Ray Smith to clarify or substantiate any comments or views expressed, please don’t hesitate to ask.  Or if you want to share Scriptures that come to your mind as you read this, please feel welcome to contribute.
The member brought nobility and sacrifice into question regarding Babylon. I responded affirming that………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

There is no nobility in Babylon.  Babylon is owned run and organized by scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, hirelings, and white washed sepulchers. The LEADERSHIP of Christendom are those who constrain, sacrifice and persecute, devour and mis-lead the sheep inside the capture of their lies and false doctrines. They don’t care about the sheep. They care only to fleece them for their own comfort mentally, physiologically, physically, emotionally and spiritually. The leadership of Christendom are BLIND to their own motives that Christ shall unveil upon His return.

The unveiling of the motives that govern the most sincere, most loyal hypocrites of Christendom, shall turn the LOF upon them in a bitter chastisement that only Christ and His Elect, shall be able to convert to righteousness through making right all the wrong done to all the blind followers of Christendom. The leaders shall pay back every cent taken, extorted and stolen from their congregations and following.  This is not a financially returned asset, but is symbolic of all the hurt, depravation and separation caused to those who follow blindly into error and idolatry of the Church Systems around the world.

Christ’s part in this scenario is to put it straight, to correct the errors, to chastise the liars and to redeem the lost. They are ALL lost.

You ask if Christ is the source of some of the nobility and sacrifice in Babylon. No. He is not tainted with their objectives or motives. Can you see that now?

Remember Christ laid down His Life for us and warns us that those who enter the sheep fold by other means, they are thieves.

The hirelings are the leaders in Christendom. They are accompanied by the scribes and Pharisees who employ them, manage and lead them.

You ask : I want to know about the individual people, the one who seem to do great works after being rescued from lives of sorts of addiction and go on to live totally different and changed lives, and appear in every way to love and respect Christ. Tell me about them, if you would , please.

We were THEM. WE WERE THEM! Christ came and dragged us out. HE chooses who HE will to be put into His judgment now on His House that is not the House of Christianity or any religion anywhere in the world. Our judgment and trial is to stay out, to keep out, and to stay faithful that only His Spirit can produce in anyone He chooses. There are so few of us that have been rescued, chosen and elected to come out of the system that has to be thoroughly experienced, suffered, understood before the Truth can by standing ovation, be heard, appreciated and accepted.

If you look at what happened to me and the Hebrew nation after they left Egypt. They did not like it! It hurt. It took away their appetites for foods ( foods = symbolic of all our human needs )that were tasty. The old wine, at first, tastes better than the new wine. The new wine is different! Change is difficult, resented, resisted and dis-approved. God has to change us through His Goodness, Mercy and Long suffering because we want the old wine, we do not want to change!

Babylon is inebriated on old wine! Babylon is feeding the masses on the dregs of its own addictions, harlotry and aversion to Christ and His pure untainted, sober and deliberate Spirit of Truth.

Only the Spirit of God can correct our bad habits that lean on bad ways of a kingdom of which Christ has no part. Remember His Kingdom is not of this world. His Kingdom is the rarified atmosphere of His Spirit that is untainted by traditions, addictions, weaknesses,  comfort zones of human dependencies and failures.

HE is the author and finisher of our Faith so He appoints us to experience the errors, deceptions and deceit of Babylon that we JOIN and try to BELONG to in our efforts to be part of something we erroneously think is Holy. We have to experience the contrast. We have to be blind. We have to believe in lies, we have to die for our idols and we have to be chosen to survive our errors through the re-education of our spirits to conform to the Spirit of Christ. No one can do that but Christ.

The works that falsely appear to be of Christ are not possible without the sanction that Christ gives to the deceptions leading the blind into deeper dependence on their carnally minded leaders and captors of their hearts and souls. That Satan can appear as an Angel of LIGHT, shows you that LIGHT can be mis-used as are healings, exorcisms and the like that are high ticket items to win support approval and a following fed by the assurances of their physical well being. Jesus fed the multitudes fish and bread for their physical strength. They could not assimilate or know His parables and so likewise today, the multitudes are still eating the physical reserves out of Christendom that feed and strengthen their desire not to sacrifice their lives or despise their life on earth, but to APPEASE their hurts, assure their successes in worldly living! Do you see this?

Look at ALL the Books published by the leaders in the Christian system. THEY ALL teach how to LIVE BETTER, not how to die to self, die to life and live through CHRIST. There is no HOW to DO IT book on that. WHY? Because no one knows HOW to come out of BABYLON except that THE FATHER DRAGG US. There can be no book published that tells GOD the FATHER, how to do His Work. There are non who even know His Work, Plan and Purpose save the very few….like you and I and others who are beginning to see the plans.

The system of Babylon and its followers all are in deception and strong delusion. This is the design of God that has caused this. This is not the end. The result of having participated in false doctrines and unwholesome briefs, will be to our chastisement and correction that is a benevolent outcome for us all. It is the way of God to have the world deceived. The WHOLE World. It is the Way of God to have Mercy on all the world.

I sense despair for those who are “left behind” in Babylon. That emotion is due to false understanding. God is doing a great work!

You ask : I want to know about the individual people, the one who seem to do great works after being rescued from lives of sorts of addiction and go on to live totally different and changed lives, and appear in every way to love and respect Christ. Tell me about them, if you would , please.

Just try to get close to one of them. Just try to tinker around with their idea of free will or hell and you will experience for yourself the vehement disagreement and do or die attitude of these who are in captivity with Satan to do Satan’s will. Ray says they despise God. God says they hate Him with a deep seated hatred. I say they are blind. We are all right. I am just softer. They hate, they hate deeply and they are blind.  That is part of the plan! God is doing a great work!

You ask : I know the scriptures of the many will say...but are the many, all of them?

Will any of them be overcomers? Will any of them sit on the throne with Christ?  Do any of them know Him or are known by Him?

Can't their be wheat in the tares?

Tares are tares. They shall be burnt. You know how the spirit always returns to God? The life of the tare and the wheat returns to God. The tare shall receive a new life dressed with new potentials from God after the tare is destroyed. You know what God says about all the works being destroyed but you shall escape as yet by fire. The spirit shall receive a new station in the experience of living under the government and reign on Christ where they shall learn righteousness when His Judgments are in the earth. They shall be restored, converted, repented and they shall be re-newed.

The tare shall not overcome the wheat or have any part of the presence in the wheat barn of the Lord. They shall be burnt. The life of the spirit in them returns to God for re-appointment to life on earth under the Government of Christ wherein the lives of Hitler and all the Tares shall live under administration of the Kingdom of God. What an opportunity!

Not all of them will WANT to sit on the Throne of Christ! The overcomers sit there. Don’t you know that it is easier to follow than to lead. Sheep want to be sheep! They like it. They like the Shepherd and they follow. That is what is going to happen. There will be no wolves in the Kingdom of God. Can you see the LOVE>

You ask : Do any of them know Him or are known by Him?

Can't their be wheat in the tares?

 No. They neither know Him or are esteemed by Him. He wants nothing to do with them. They scavenge for His affection, they deceive themselves and one another. They have entitlements that have no merit in the Kingdom of God and they would fight to have their way and assert their rights with the very Creator HIMSELF. No. Of course they are not welcome. They have to be changed, converted, re-newed and re-positioned into an age where they then can have hope, faith and learn the way of God that is righteous and true.

There IS wheat, but it is the tares that will be pulled out by their roots. The wheat is GATHERED into the barns of God.

God is not the source of work or works. He is the source of honor and praise of His Name.

Thank you for your high regard for my “opinion” which actually is my testimony given in the memory of Gods amazing, wondrous work in King Nebuchadnezzar and Habakkuk. 

Deborah
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Roy Martin

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Re: We were THEM
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2010, 07:39:57 PM »

Ark, good timing and very well said.
Thank you.

Roy
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Samson

  • Guest
Re: We were THEM
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2010, 08:01:55 PM »

Enjoyed your Thread, Deb.

I especially appreciated the paragraph copied and pasted below in blue.

Just try to get close to one of them. Just try to tinker around with their idea of free will or hell and you will experience for yourself the vehement disagreement and do or die attitude of these who are in captivity with Satan to do Satan’s will. Ray says they despise God. God says they hate Him with a deep seated hatred. I say they are blind. We are all right. I am just softer. They hate, they hate deeply and they are blind.  That is part of the plan! God is doing a great work!

oops, forgot to change color to blue above, but that's Arcturus paragraph above in black. I can relate to the " try and tinker with their beliefs, which in reality are " Idols of the Heart", their Free Will, Endless Punishment, their Tithing, their physical observance of the Sabbath, their Physical this, their Physical that, their water baptism, their Circumcision, Their once flawless, Spiritually perfect Adam and Eve, their Anointed Cherub that covereth who was perfect and became Satan, their damage control center in Heaven run by God who they think is failing to save Humanity. Try and Tinker with these beliefs and the motives of the heart will manifest itself. These Religious Types of people outwardly do very nice things for other people and appear flawless in their Character to others publicly, but mess with their beliefs and they get very angry. Matthew. 23:13-35.

                                   Thankyou, Samson.
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bambam

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Re: We were THEM
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2010, 01:08:43 AM »

Arcturus,
     This is a very fitting testimony considering my circumstances right now.  Thank you for sharing it!!  I have had a few discussions with my husband and last night's was very difficult for me.  But God is moving me and I long to be out of the church I am going to.  I admit I do not want to leave without my husband, and at this point he isn't leaving.  I pray he begins to see too!  BUt I ask for patience if he does not.  Thanks again for you words!
Beth :)
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Stacey

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Re: We were THEM
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2010, 04:34:06 AM »

Amen Arc, I enjoyed reading your thread. Great answers. I kept telling myself "we were them" the whole way through and cannot help but to have compassion on those still in the system/blindness. I know full well that tinkering with their belief's could bring the wrath of the church on ones head if one chooses to interfer. The image of a cat and it making that cat noise when its ready to attack comes to mind.  :) It is comforting to know that God is in control and that He will have His way and the ends do justify the means that He has established for it all to be accomplished, no matter if we can or cannot agree with it or understand it all. 
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Stacey

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: We were THEM
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2010, 04:41:31 AM »

Thank you Roy.  I find that it is easier for me to address an individual. Details become clearer and there is a warmth of communication not so easily or readily available when speaking to the world through the Forum which is rather like stepping out of the boat and walking on water.
We are all doing that here every time we make a post!

Samson, thank you for your comments.
You know you really do touch a nerve that I believe runs through everyone who is privileged to come to realize the Truth and to see, know and comprehend, that God is NOT going to destroy His family but is going to elevate us all into the heights of His Love.
 When we come to know just a little bit about the reality of God, it then has to dawn on each and every one of us, sooner or later, that our loved ones may not be subscribing to the same understanding that we have. This means that their actions, thoughts, deeds and motives are harnessed to fear, trepidation and terror that twists itself into the need to become a hypocrite of the supreme rank of A class acting.
I know it hurts me to see family members that are not ”spiritual family” members, doing and behaving in ways for the sake of appearances.  They do what is right from motives of fear not love. I can see it and they cannot and it hurts me not them. I cannot engage in the hypocrisy and I do not entertain their objectives to keep up appearances at all costs. It costs us in the end because we cannot make them see, or change. We cannot save one soul and we are not supposed to either. We suffer the isolation and the appearance of being aloof, different, in our own worlds, isolated, self approving, and nothing, no nothing could be further from the Truth.
 Indeed it is such a burden, and I mean this not in any bad way what so ever, but it is painful to know Christ whilst being in a world so blind and so devoted to keeping up appearances don’t you think?

Beth, I can not trivialize what you are going through. It is bad enough when those people who want to love us and extend their need to touch and impress us, just can’t do it because of their idols. It has to surely frustrate them and invite all kinds of bad thoughts, false conclusions and assumptions to cushion their blind eyes and make it easier for them to bear their errors. Just think of the joy a person thinking that there is Hell, gets when they feel powerless to pay back, hit back, hurt back, those who persecute and harass them. It is such a vicious circle that only the Spirit of Christ can break and redeem.
I spoke with Myms somewhere in the Forum and I think everyone who has a spouse who is not quite there yet, we have these circumstances in our  most intimate relationships by design of God calling to Trust Him more and Depend on Him more and to know His Love more as we become set free of condemnation both for ourselves and for others. It brings to mind the Scripture that says…
If our own hearts condemn us,…..
We all, surely ALL have to suffer the same things some time somehow, somewhere and by Gods love and mercy He appoints some to extend their hands of compassion to us who know the depth and pain we endure in the process of God making us into His Image.
Bless you Beth and all spouses suffering the apparent imbalance of Faith or Believe that God surely means for good because we do love Him. We can all be encouraged then, to continue to …. not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth, whether we have the worlds liscence or approval or not....
1Jn 3:19  And in this we shall know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him,
1Jn 3:20  that if our heart accuses us, God is greater than our heart and knows all things.
God is the cause of all things, circumstances and trials....

And Stacey, well you know what I think of you. You are just a jewel. :)

Arc
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 04:50:48 AM by Arcturus »
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Samson

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Re: We were THEM
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2010, 01:44:06 PM »

Your Right Deb,

                      Your quote from your last Post in blue below. Thanks for the reminder, we have to keep their Spiritual State of Affairs in a balanced proper perspective, especially when we consider that We were one of them or might, at least, been one of them, promoting pretences and appearances, but I ask God to help me forgive them, for they know not what they do, just like Jesus said while on the Cross, prior to his death.

                              Arcturus quote below in blue.

Samson, thank you for your comments.
You know you really do touch a nerve that I believe runs through everyone who is privileged to come to realize the Truth and to see, know and comprehend, that God is NOT going to destroy His family but is going to elevate us all into the heights of His Love.
 When we come to know just a little bit about the reality of God, it then has to dawn on each and every one of us, sooner or later, that our loved ones may not be subscribing to the same understanding that we have. This means that their actions, thoughts, deeds and motives are harnessed to fear, trepidation and terror that twists itself into the need to become a hypocrite of the supreme rank of A class acting.
I know it hurts me to see family members that are not ”spiritual family” members, doing and behaving in ways for the sake of appearances.  They do what is right from motives of fear not love. I can see it and they cannot and it hurts me not them. I cannot engage in the hypocrisy and I do not entertain their objectives to keep up appearances at all costs. It costs us in the end because we cannot make them see, or change. We cannot save one soul and we are not supposed to either. We suffer the isolation and the appearance of being aloof, different, in our own worlds, isolated, self approving, and nothing, no nothing could be further from the Truth.
 Indeed it is such a burden, and I mean this not in any bad way what so ever, but it is painful to know Christ whilst being in a world so blind and so devoted to keeping up appearances don’t you think?



          Thanks, Samson.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: We were THEM
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2010, 02:27:09 PM »

Quote
we have to keep their Spiritual State of Affairs in a balanced proper perspective

Right! Like remembering that we have the beam in our eye and so do they :)

Quote
I ask God to help me forgive them, for they know not what they do, just like Jesus said while on the Cross, prior to his death.

Forgive, yes Samson.  :)  That is Scriptural...forgive us our offenses AS WE  forgive them their offenses towards us. We forgive because we are commissioned to forgive. This has nothing to do with "they know not what they do"...No one is expected to forgive on the merit of the offender not knowing what they are doing. That is not Scriptural.
There are many verses in Scripture that show that there are people who know very well what they are doing. They connive, plan, plot and scheme to dig holes for others.

They want to, they intend to, bring down, hurt, maim, mutilate injure and wound. These are the children of wrath who enjoy thinking, hoping, planning and praying that their enemies will burn forever. Make no mistake, these children are very messed up kids of carnality. Only God can cause their change from wrath to humility, from hate to love and from insane prejudicial holier-than-thou self indulgence, to repentance through only the goodness of God.

Luke 23:34     Then said Jesus, Father forgive them; for they know not what they do…..It is worth noting that, on authority of Professor C. Tisendorf’s notes on the reading of the two oldest Greek manuscripts, the Sinaitic and the Vatican #1209.  The words shown from Luke 23:34 found in our common King James Version are NOT found in the oldest manuscripts.

Arc
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Phil3:10

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Re: We were THEM
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2010, 04:19:07 PM »

Arc,
How very timely, for me,  was your response to the forum member.  My only comfort is that our GOD wants things this way now, but HIS promises for the future are what I cherish. His forgiveness and mercy are our only hope. I think He has made things so very dismal in order for all to see how great and wonderful HE will be at HIS appointed time.  I do feel much more blessed that HE has called me out of the Babylonian System and through Ray Smith and this forum I am learning the real truths of our GOD.
Thanks for your posts as they always enhance my time in this forum.
In HIM,
Phil3:10
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acomplishedartis

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Re: We were THEM
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2010, 11:15:27 PM »


I appreciate these post.

Yes, I was one of them... and do not wish it would be different. First you have to understand the place, realize what are you doing there and then have the  motivation enough to leave for good. 


try and tinker with their beliefs,
            Thankyou, Samson.[/color]

About the adobe quote: I try ed once or twice a couple years ago, and regret it.
The image of me hurt ed by angry cats comes to my mind.

 
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tinknocker

  • Guest
Re: We were THEM
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2010, 12:55:58 AM »

Arc,

Your responses in your post really lifted my spirit. It reaffirmed how far God has brought all of us.

Thank You!

In Love
Tom
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: We were THEM
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2010, 06:27:13 AM »



Phil3:10
I always enjoy seeing you in the Forum. You can be counted on for uplifting and encouraging us. Thank you for what you bring to us all here.

It is impossible for the human condition to endure without the Spirit of Christ who gives us His Power and His Intercession on our behalf, to endure the trials that come to us on levels of mental, emotional and physical tribulations. Only His Spirit can prevent us becoming hardened, bitter and vengeful or worse still, letting our love grow cold.

The warmth and comfort I draw from this Forum and its members who post their insights of our God, are like medicine and nourishment for the soul in trial and testing.

That His Spirit has caused you to share what you cherish, and that He makes you hold to His Promises of the future, inspires confidence in the Hope we too can have through you showing us His Gifts of Hope and endurance towards you. He is not a respecter of persons and so what He gives to you He can give to all of us too.

Thank you for showing us His generous and loving Spirit. 



Yes Moises,

Angry cats is quite an image. :D

In my deepest agony after I was expelled from last and final Church of man that I belonged to, I asked God what was happening. It felt like God was removing a huge claw, not of a cat either, but of some huge monster, out from my torso that had caught me through the back. I am so very thankful for the Mercy God showed to me to save me and to restore me to strength in order to participate here while learning to know and Love Him and celebrate that Love through our brothers and sisters here.


Tom

You have not been here long and it is for the freshness of acknowledgement that veteran members here must surely be lifted to see and hear. It is for people like you who come with eyes open and hearts responding to what God is doing, that lifts and inspires our hearts in our journey to meet Him through the love He shows us in others.

I want to acknowledge the artful way God inspired me to open my thoughts to the Forum through the most sincerely felt concerns expressed to me by the trusting member of the flock of Christ that pastures here.

Thank you
Arc
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