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Author Topic: Spirit or soul  (Read 2378 times)

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Roy Martin

  • Guest
Spirit or soul
« on: February 08, 2010, 10:53:31 PM »

Which are we? Are we a spirit in flesh, or are we flesh with a soul? Is soul and spirit the same thing?
 What is a soul?

Thanks in advance

Peace
Roy
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Ninny

  • Guest
Re: Spirit or soul
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2010, 11:24:11 PM »

Roy, this is the way I understand it...spirit=breath..when God breathed into the nostrils man became a living soul..but when the breath leaves the soul dies..so the soul is the part of us that's alive..the spirit is what KEEPS us alive...when the spirit returns to God it's not alive..it's just air...but I also believe that God keeps that part of us which is our personality, what makes us unique..it isn't alive..it's like a computer chip that contains information..not a real tangible thing..just who and what we are..stays with God until he gives it back to us...that's just my perspective...this is how I always explained that to my sons when they were kids...that's just the way I see it...   :)
Kathy ;)
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G. Driggs

  • Guest
Re: Spirit or soul
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2010, 11:31:13 PM »

Hi Roy, here is a short excerpt from 'Dr. James Kennedy A Sermon Denying God’s Responsibility to Save Africans'

@ http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm

SPIRIT

When a man dies his spirit returns to God Who gave it (Lk. 23:46, Psa. 104:24-30). The "spirit" is never said to go to hades or sheol, and the "soul" is never said to go to Heaven at death. Men and beasts have the same spirit [ruach] and they go to the same place (Ecc. 3:18-21). There is no getting around this: when God takes away a living soul's spirit, it always dies. The spirit "gives life." No one can live without "spirit," no matter how young and healthy he may be. There are no exceptions. If there are, where is the Scripture? A dead person cannot experience anything-not pleasure in Heaven or pain in a fabled hell. This is a serious thing. Rom. 14:23 says: "Now everything which is not out of faith is sin." If one doesn't have Scriptures that show people go to eternal hell fire after death, then it is a sin to teach it.

SOUL

When a man dies his soul goes to the unseen or imperceptible [Gk: hades, Heb: sheol]. We also know that when man is in this condition (dead) it is likened to "sleep" (Psa. 13:3, Dan. 12:1-2, Jn. 11:11-14). God Himself likens death to sleep,

"The Lord said unto Moses [concerning his imminent death], Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers ... " (Deut. 31:16)

This is substantiated by the fact that:

"The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything" (Ecc. 9:5,6).

Again:

" ... for there is no work, nor device [contrivance, intelligence, reason], nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in sheol." (Ecc. 9:10).

Do we think all of these Scriptures lie? According to what we just read in Ecc. 9:5,6,10, do dead people know anything? And these verses are correctly translated.

The words "soul" and "spirit" have become corrupted through theology so that they are now used interchangeably, as if they were synonymous. They are not synonymous. There may be certain similarities between soul and spirit, but similarities do not make them one and the same.

The "soul" is the seat of sensation, consciousness, and feelings, not the body or the spirit. It is the spirit that imparts life to the body and the body then becomes a living soul (Gen. 2:7).

A thorough study of the word "soul" in the Scriptures proves that it is used of consciousness, feelings, and emotions. Hence, "sensation" is a good word to define its usage.

�         souls can touch (Lev. 5:2)

�         souls have knowledge (Pr. 2:10)

�         souls have memory (Lam. 3:20)

�         souls can love, and be joyful (Psa. 35:9; 86:4)

�         souls can hunger and thirst (Deut. 14:26)

�         souls can sin (Lev. 4:2)

�         life can be given to a soul (Job 3:20)

�         souls can die (Ezek. 18:20)

�         souls can be converted (Psa. 19:7)

�         none can keep alive his (own) soul (Psa. 22:29)

�         honey is sweet to the soul (Pr. 16:24)

�         even God has a soul (Lev. 26:11, I Sam. 2:35, Jer. 32:41)

�         souls can hear (Acts 3:22-23)

�         souls can experience pleasure (Heb. 10:3)

�         souls can be purified (I Pet. 1:22)

�         and souls can receive salvation (I Pet. 1:9).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't completely understand what "soul" was either until yesterday when I was reading this. I know I read this paper before, but must have missed it. ??? Hope this helps.

G.Driggs
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Spirit or soul
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2010, 12:20:18 AM »


Hi Roy,

I got together some of what Ray teaches on the spirit and the soul.

http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm --------------------------

                                                   SPIRIT

The "soul" is the seat of sensation, consciousness, and feelings, not the body or the spirit. It is the spirit that imparts life to the body and the body then becomes a living soul (Gen. 2:7).

                                               TV ANALOGY

Here is an analogy that is applicable and easy to understand: God's spirit gives life to the body. Only in life does a man have consciousness or sensation. When God takes back His spirit, the body and soul are dead.

Picture a TV console as representing the human BODY with all its intricate circuitry and components.

Now picture ELECTRICITY as the invisible, powerful force representing God's life-giving SPIRIT.

Picture the blank PICTURE TUBE as representing the SOUL.

Without the electricity (God's spirit), the TV and picture tube (body and soul) are dead. All the time I hear preachers talking about our souls and our spirits as if they were one and the same. Soul and spirit are not one and the same.

Next plug in the electricity (God's spirit). The TV comes to life, and we see the picture tube (soul) animated. We see color, sound, dancing, singing, talking, intelligent conversations, all live via satellite. The dead TV becomes a living, visible, animated, intelligent entity-"Soul." But notice very carefully, the Soul (the animated picture in the TV tube) is not one of the original components. It is not a component in and by itself, but is rather the result of two other vital components, Body and Spirit (the TV console and electricity).

At bedtime I sometimes tell my daughter to give the TV a rest. When one turns off the "on/off" switch the TV goes to "sleep." The power light is still on, but the TV is blank and silent.

But now, pull the plug and take away the electricity (spirit) and what happens to the TV console (body)? It dies. It's just a box of circuits. Not even the power light is on anymore. If left unplugged it will, in time, decay and return to the dust of the ground.

And what happens to the colorful animated picture on the screen (soul) when we take away the electricity (spirit)? Want the real answer? Ask a child. Let several children watch TV together, then pull the plug and ask them where the picture went? A child will shrug his shoulders or say "I don't know" or say "It disappeared." Guess what? He is Scripturally correct on all three counts.

Without spirit there is no life and no consciousness. Without power a TV has no life and no animated picture. It's dead.


http://bible-truths.com/hagee1.htm ---------------------------

"And do not fear those who are killing the body, yet are not able to kill the soul. Yet be fearing him, rather, Who is able to destroy the soul as well as the body in Gehenna."

Jesus said not to fear those who can "kill," but rather fear Him [Jesus Christ] who is able to destroy the soul as well as the body in Gehenna. The first part of the verse is man's operation, but the second part of the verse is God's. Men have no jurisdiction over the soul. All they can do is kill the body. But God can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

Man consists of a body which, when God imparts His spirit to it, becomes a living soul. The soul is the result of the combination of body and spirit. There is "soul" only as long as God's spirit unites with the body. At death, God takes back His spirit and the "soul" goes to the unseen (or imperceptible). Hades in Greek or Sheol in Hebrew are not geographical locations, but rather a condition.

Those who teach annihilation rather than eternal punishment use this verse to show that when God destroys, the soul is irretrievable. This, however, is not true. "Destroy" comes from the Greek word Apollumi = FROM-WHOLE-LOOSE, that is, to "lose." The disciples were afraid that they would perish [apollumi] by drowning (Mk. 4:38). The sheep was lost [apollumi] by straying (Lk 15:4). We may destroy [apollumi] a weak saint by our knowledge (I Cor. 8:11). And Christ destroys [apollumi] both body and soul in Gehenna. Never does the Greek word apollumi mean annihilation! Besides destruction is the prelude to SALVATION! All we like sheep have gone astray. To be "lost" is the same Greek word used for "destroy." So it is axiomatic that if an apollumi [LOST] sheep can be SAVED, then certainly an apollumi [DESTROYED] soul can be saved also. Believe God's Word, not man's doctrines.


http://bible-truths.com/hagee1.htm ---------------------------------

God didn’t need to do anything after He breathed into him the breathe of life. It was the breath of life from God that caused the man to become a living soul. God didn’t put a soul into Adam; Adam is a living soul. The spirit of man, which God gives to every human, is like a light switch—Switch it ‘on’ and the light glows: Switch it ‘off’ and the light is dark, gone, dead. Put the spirit in the man, and the man is a living soul: take the spirit out of the man, and the man is a dead soul. Do you think that even your children could understand this Scriptural Truth?


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3253.0.html ----------

the spirit is not the soul. The spirit does not have consciousness. The spirit cannot think thoughts, and that is why our "thoughts perish" at death according to David.  Our spirit as well as Christ Spirit had to be reunited with a BODY before we or He would have consciousness again. Jesus was DEAD for three days, not "absent from the body" for three days.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1675.0.html -----------

there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46;  I Cor. 2:11; etc.).  There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,240.0.html -------------

You have to get it out of your head the idea that the spirit, soul and body are "separate entities" as if they could function independently of each other.  Remember my TV analogy of six years ago?  The console is the body, the picture is the soul, and the electricity is the spirit. Yes, they are "entities," if you will that have distinct names, and functions, but none of them produces anything independent of each other. Smash the console and you have not soul (picture). Pull the plug and you have not soul (picture).  
Likewise remove the spirit, and the body dies. Remove the spirit and the soul disappears. Smash the body and the soul disappears. The soul IS THE SENTIENT man. The emotional, thinking, conscious man. This consciousness is called "soul."  It is not a thing that can literally travel or go somewhere independent of the body and brain. That is why it is said in the Greek Scriptures that at death the soul goes to hades. Hades means the unseen, the imperceptible, unconsciousness.
It takes spirit from God in a body to give it life, which life is then called "a LIVING SOUL."
It takes a little meditation to understand these concepts.

God be with you
Ray

« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 12:23:14 AM by Kat »
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Silvia Martin

  • Guest
Re: Spirit or soul
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2010, 10:06:34 AM »

Ray talks Man and Beast having a spirit, then talks about the resurrection of man. What about the animals? :-\ I was always taught that animals didn't have a spirit, that that's what separates us from them, and that they don't get resurrected.

     Silvia
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Roy Martin

  • Guest
Re: Spirit or soul
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2010, 10:19:32 AM »

Thanks everyone. I think I can chew on that for awhile.

Roy
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Ninny

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Re: Spirit or soul
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2010, 10:51:20 AM »

Silvia, animals are different in that they have no ability to reason..their brains while as intricate and complicated as ours are not as highly developed. they do not have a notion of right and wrong. They don't think ahead..they don't have regrets..they have no thought for tomorrow, most animals live in the moment. I personally believe that animals will always be a part of our lives even in the resurrection. It is my personal belief that God will restore our pets and animals that mean a lot to us..if the "whole creation groans..." then the whole creation feels the effect of sin and our fallen state..There may not be any scriptural proof for that, but it is my own personal opinion! :)
Kathy ;)
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Spirit or soul
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2010, 11:39:59 AM »


Hi Silvia,

Every living creature has the breath of life. 

Gen 7:15  And they went into the ark to Noah, two by two, of all flesh in which is the breath7307 of life.

H7307 ruach - breath, wind, spirit:

Gen 7:21 And all flesh ceased to breathe that moved on the earth, of birds and of tame-beasts and of wild-beasts, and of all the swarming things that swarm on the earth,—land all mankind.
v. 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life of all that were on the dry ground died. (Rotherham)

Now I think like Kathy does, as animals are given only a rudimentary brain that works on instincts to survive. But for those of us who have pets we know there is more to animals than just functioning to sustain their lives and though the Bible says nothing about the resurrection of animals, I wonder...

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Spirit or soul
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2010, 01:21:30 PM »


The earth to which Christ will return, the earth that is sick, competitive, dangerous, dark, hostile, hateful and volatile,  is going to be re-newed. The birds to sing, bees to pollinate the flowers, and fish and beetles ants and horses and beautiful animal kingdom alongside the wolf that lies down with the lamb, the mosquitoes, spiders snakes and scorpions shall have no more poison as will the humans have no more to fear from their beast within.

When Gods Judgments are in the earth and the inhabitants are in the reign of Christ to learn His Righteousness under His judicial management ushering in His judgments of  our God, then  perfect love shall cast out fear, error and deception triumphing over death in all its shapes, forms and shadows. So what are you worried about? God is love. We shall not want.

Arc
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