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Author Topic: Are all men new creatures in Christ?  (Read 2469 times)

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rocky

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Are all men new creatures in Christ?
« on: June 20, 2006, 12:21:21 PM »

2Cr 5:16   So that we henceforth have known no one according to the flesh, and even if we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know him no more;

2 Cr 5:17   so that if any one [is] in Christ -- [he is] a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things.

2Cr 5:14   for the love of the Christ doth constrain us, having judged thus: that if one for all died, then the whole died,

2Cr 5:15   and for all he died, that those living, no more to themselves may live, but to him who died for them, and was raised again.


Are all men in Christ, and therefore we are to look at no man as after the flesh, we are all new creatures in Christ??

or


are only those who no longer live for themselves "in Christ" and the ones that are not in the flesh???
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chrissiela

  • Guest
Are all men new creatures in Christ?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2006, 12:28:15 PM »

here's something to consider Rocky:

    Rom 14:1  Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

    Rom 14:2  For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

    Rom 14:3  Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

    Rom 14:4  Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

    Rom 14:5  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

    Rom 14:6  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

    Rom 14:7  For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

    Rom 14:8  For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

    Rom 14:9  For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

    Rom 14:10  But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

    Rom 14:11  For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

    Rom 14:12  So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

    Rom 14:13  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.[/list:u]

    Chrissie
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eutychus

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Are all men new creatures in Christ?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2006, 12:30:42 PM »

i see that the law has passed we no longer follow the law in the flesh but in the spirit.

to follow the law lawfully means just that, CHRIST.

the end of the law, hence, we no longer walk after the flesh/law

we walk after the spirit and life.




Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.



good topic.

peace
chuckt
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rocky

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Are all men new creatures in Christ?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2006, 11:02:08 AM »

Thanks Chrissie for the scriptures you listed.  This one really hit home with me.  

Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.


I have been having trouble not judging an individual i know, who claims Christ as her savior, yet lives the opposite.  Claims love and yet walks with the world.  Hard for me to not feel a little "proud" of myself for not desiring that lifestyle anymore.  

Last night as I was praying, I realized that, the desire in me to not want to walk with the world has nothing to do with me, my flesh hasn't been converted and never will be.  

The only reason is Christ in me is doing it.  Very humbling to realize, that the only good thing I can do is by Christ doing it through me.  It is also hard for me to fully trust God that his plan with every person is on the correct timing, God's timing.  

If we look at man by the flesh, there is alot to judge.  Looking at them through the blood of Christ makes things a lot easier to trust, love, and forgive.
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chrissiela

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Re: Are all men new creatures in Christ?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2006, 06:53:13 PM »

Yes, Rocky I know exactly what you mean. Very much a case of "lip service", as with those who cry “Lord, Lord” and say that they have done 'this' or 'that' in His name, but in response to them the Lord says: "I never knew you". Those who profess to know God, but deny him in their works.

I agree with you that it is a struggle that we have with the flesh, our carnal nature wanting to judge others and ourselves, usually judging ourselves quite a bit more leniently than how we judge others. I wish I could remember a quote that I saw someone use once (maybe even here, not sure)… about that very thing. Something about how we judge ourselves based on “intentions”, but others based on “results”. Man, I forget… but I thought it was so true.

We, knowing our own intentions and motivations, can oftentimes be much more lenient and forgiving of ourselves than we are of others.

I think that we can also have very unrealistic expectations of others because we expect from others what we expect from ourselves. I think that this plays out both positively and negatively and we can end up making very inaccurate assumptions about others because of it.

Trusting, loving and forgiving others is certainly, as you say, the workmanship of God that must be worked in each and every one of us if we are to be transformed into the image of His Son and be made into a “new creature”.

It’s no wonder that it is in our PATIENCE that we possess our souls.

Chrissie
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orion77

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Re: Are all men new creatures in Christ?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2006, 10:36:01 PM »

I was on another forum and someone mentioned, as in Adam all sinned and in Christ all are alive, so which should we believe?  It is easy to believe 'as in Adam', yet the majority can't seem to believe 'in Christ' for some reason.  Here is the verses:


(Rom 5:14)  but death reigned from Adam until Moses, even on those who had not sinned in the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a type of the coming One.

(Rom 5:15)  But the free gift is not also like the deviation. For if by the deviation of the one the many died, much more the grace of God, and the gift in grace, which is of the one Man, Jesus Christ, did abound to the many.

(Rom 5:16)  And the gift is not as by one having sinned; for indeed the judgment was of one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many deviations to justification.

(Rom 5:17)  For if by the deviation of the one death reigned through the one, much more those who are receiving the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall rule in life by the One, Jesus Christ.

(Rom 5:18)  So then, as through one deviation it was toward all men to condemnation, so also through one righteous act toward all men to justification of life.

(Rom 5:19)  For as through the one man's disobedience the many were constituted sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many shall be constituted righteous.

(Rom 5:20)  But Law came in besides, that the deviation might abound. But where sin abounded, grace much more abounded,

(Rom 5:21)  that as sin ruled in death, so also grace might rule through righteousness to everlasting life, through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Thank God, we are a new creation through His obedience, and through His obedience grace, the free gift, justification and righteousness abounds more abundantly than the sin of one.  God has each of us right where He wants us to be, some a little farther along than others, yet the day will come when all will be healed.  Gods will and purpose will come to pass, no matter what we think or believe at any given moment in time.  He is eternal, and knows the beginning from the end.  He is the Alpha and Omega. 

God bless,

Gary
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worm

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Re: Are all men new creatures in Christ?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2006, 06:17:00 AM »

Are all men in Christ, and therefore we are to look at no man as after the flesh, we are all new creatures in Christ??

I believe we who are fortunate to be elightened by Christ in this life should see men as Christ did...did He make a distinction between the Jew or Samaritan...between the believer and unbeliever?
No...he didn't

We also know now that ALL men will be saved eventually...so we should see all men as potentially righteous...just like God sees us...we are still full of fault and transgressions, but He sees us as if we are already cleansed...He lets his light shine on all people...and so should we as per His example

Ro 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Remember the parable Jesus told about the Pharisee ("so called" righteous) vs the commoner ( the "so called" lost)?

Luke
18:9
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 
18:10
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 
18:11
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 
18:12
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 
18:13
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 
18:14
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. 

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Lightseeker

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Re: Are all men new creatures in Christ?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2006, 07:15:32 PM »

CHRISSIE

Quote
I wish I could remember a quote that I saw someone use once (maybe even here, not sure)… about that very thing. Something about how we judge ourselves based on “intentions”, but others based on “results”. Man, I forget… but I thought it was so true.

Was it: We judge ourselves according to our heart but we judge others according to their actions.

Quote
It’s no wonder that it is in our PATIENCE that we possess our souls.


Amen.  We may not have control over the outside, but we certainly have control over our attitude on the inside.  I think that how we act is up to us, and "tribulation worketh patience"...or could we say it works patience into us???
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Chris R

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Re: Are all men new creatures in Christ?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2006, 10:11:15 PM »

Hi,

Jer 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man [is] not in himself: [it is] not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

To say we have control over our attitude outward, or inward, is to simply deny the above scripture.

Chris R
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buddyjc

  • Guest
Re: Are all men new creatures in Christ?
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2006, 12:40:26 PM »

Hi,

Jer 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man [is] not in himself: [it is] not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

To say we have control over our attitude outward, or inward, is to simply deny the above scripture.

Chris R


Amen Chris.  God is definitely in control.  The work of the cross 'atoned' or 'covered' our sin, but sin still remains and must be done away, but this is done strictly by God.  I have been thinking about this a lot lately.  It's like having a house full of nail holes.  The nail holes being my sin, Jesus Christ comes along with a bucket of plaster and covers up all the nail holes.  Even though you can't see the holes, the holes are still there.  God is ripping house of the Elect apart, and rebuilding it, and this is judgment.  The rest of mankind who are not the Elect will have their houses destroyed and rebuilt in the lake of fire. 

Eph. 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

2Co 5:1  For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2Co 5:4  For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

The house of the Elect will not be complete until the resurrection of the dead, but for now they have a 'taste' of what is to come.  We do 'judge ourselves' but this is our perspective.  It is really the spirit of Christ that is doing the judging and not us. 
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