> General Discussions
Pagan words
F@lgn0n:
Arc
I do not disagree that God deceives those He wishes to hide the truth from.
When I said: "I'm just not seeing it" and "I remain convinced that we're missing something" - I was not implying that Jesus did NOT use those words that way.
Maybe He did.
Maybe that's all there is to it
But . . .
Somehow, whenever I go through these passages where He mentions hades .... I just can't get it out of my mind that He is referring to their pagan understanding of that "place" (as they thought of it) ...
I read those scriptures and get that same image. I know that it does not exist. The soul is not eternal. At death,we are "dead" - not in some other "realm" or place, but somehow .. the fact that He chose to use THAT particular word .... just gnaws at me - there is something more there, something we're not seeing (yet) - and it is MORE than simply "He was deliberately deceiving them" - that's just too simple.
ALL of God's other "means-by-which" "He-Sends-Them-Strong-Delusion" are far more subtle and complex.
This one is just too obvious. it's almost like a bold-faced lie. And of course, to suggest that, would be blasphemy.
You tell people they will go to a place that doesn't exist - that's exactly what Babylon does!
I just did a quick KJV Search for the word: "hell" in the NT (GOSPELS ONLY). It came up 15 times,of these - only 4 are Hades, and they are:
Mat 11:23 - Capernaum
Mat 16:18 - "gates" of Hades
Luk 10:15 - Capernaum
Luk 16:23 - Lazarus/Rich man Parable
All the rest are Gehenna - which of course has an entirely different meaning & connotation.
And NONE of the above scriptures have ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the "eternal punishment" nonsense or the purifying fire of God or any of those subjects ....
Maybe I'm starting to see it now...
Gonna think a little more on this one.
Peace.
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Roy
God is leading you as He will lead you. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong in doing research. I would just caution you as a sister to a brother to beware of how you understand whatever it is that you are going to be studying. The Scriptures support this concern.
Mar 4:24 He also said to them, "Take care what you hear. With what measure you measure, it will be measured to you, and that with interest.
Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever wins respect, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovable, whatever is of good repute--if there is any virtue or anything deemed worthy of praise--cherish the thought of these things.
My stand point is one of care not to discourage you. :)
Arc
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi F@lgn0n
No one needs to try to go and figure it all out on their own. The work has already been done and the results are in the LOF series. There is SO MUCH to digest that it needs to take root and grow through many many hours of discussion, appreciation and consideration. There is no quick fix.
The Gehenna fire is the judgment fire on all God’s Elect.
Your conclusion is a profitable one. It is a worthy idea to think but also for us to learn some more about this topic. :)
Arc
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: F@lgn0n on February 18, 2010, 10:19:30 AM ---Somehow, whenever I go through these passages where He mentions hades .... I just can't get it out of my mind that He is referring to their pagan understanding of that "place" (as they thought of it) ...
I read those scriptures and get that same image. I know that it does not exist. The soul is not eternal. At death,we are "dead" - not in some other "realm" or place, but somehow .. the fact that He chose to use THAT particular word .... just gnaws at me - there is something more there, something we're not seeing (yet) - and it is MORE than simply "He was deliberately deceiving them" - that's just too simple.
ALL of God's other "means-by-which" "He-Sends-Them-Strong-Delusion" are far more subtle and complex.
This one is just too obvious. it's almost like a bold-faced lie. And of course, to suggest that, would be blasphemy.
You tell people they will go to a place that doesn't exist - that's exactly what Babylon does!
--- End quote ---
F@lgn0n,
You are confusing what Hades is...Hades is synonymous with Sheol [Acts 2:27, Ps 16:10]. The Lord inspired many prophets to speak of Sheol throughout the OT...Sheol is not pagan in origin.
People's understanding & interpretation of Sheol/Hades is what changed. People, even NT Jews as Ray points out in LOF 16-C, began to attribute pagan beliefs to Sheol/Hades long before Christ began His earthly ministry.
It would not be a 'bold-faced lie' for the Lord to use Hades with the understanding of it's original meaning.
Thanks,
Marques
daywalker:
--- Quote from: Roy Martin on February 18, 2010, 06:07:39 AM ---Hello everyone,
I've been reading LOF again as I always do, but this time I can't get away from the section on hell;starting with XVI part C.
The history of paganism is mind boggling, and absolutely overwhelming that has stirred a hunger in me to do further studies of which I started last night.
Hades and Sheol being pagan to the core has me confused as to why Jesus used these words, or did He? What word was used back in that time for grave, or where they put their dead? I know tomb is one of them, but Hades and Sheol are a pagan god or pagan place.
I'm missing something here, but can't quite put my finger on it.
Even the word amen was a pagan god during the 400 years of the Jews in slavery to Egypt. The meaning has been changed by the Jews to what we believe it to be what it is today, but Its in the scriptures many times.
I can't keep from being suspicious about these words being used in scriptures. Is this a mystery, or could it be another one of those things that doesn't belong in the bible?
Too many thoughts coming at me right now with this so I'll try to stay focused at first on just hades and sheol. Why are these words capitalized, and why did Jesus use pagan words to describe the grave?
Thanks in advance. In the mean time I'll continue to study and research.
Roy
--- End quote ---
Hello Roy,
There are many words that the Pagans used for naming gods and mythological places; that doesn't mean the words themselves are Pagan. Take the word GOD for instance...
The Greeks word for god is THEOS.
The Hebrew word for god is ELOHIM.
What did the Pagans call their gods in Hebrew? ELOHIM!
What did the Pagans call their gods in Greek? THEOS!
What do English-speaking Pagans call their gods? GOD!
Does that mean we cannot use the words Theos, Elohim, or God, in reference to Our God? Of course not!
The words Hades and Sheol mean "UNseen" or "IMperceptible". The fact that Pagans use these words in reference to their Mythological Place of the Underworld does not change the definitions of the words themselves; nor does it mean that we cannot use them in accord with their PROPER MEANING...
Hope this helps,
Daywalker 8)
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