> General Discussions
"Torment" word study.
aqrinc:
Hi Doug,
That was a very good piece of study, and quite correct, thanks.
george ;D.
Lupac:
--- Quote from: Lupac on March 05, 2010, 10:37:33 AM ---Thanks, I guess what got me is the "shall be destroyed". If they're already in a state of destruction, how can they be further destroyed? That word I quoted can also be translated as punishment though.
--- End quote ---
Sorry to bring this back up, but I would like my question answered, if possible. Why, if someone is spiritually destroyed, does Paul say they "shall be punished with eonion destruction"? What does the Greek word "G3639 olethros" really mean? I just need help with that verse. Thanks.
For some reason, 2 Thess. 1:9 really bothers me, as it seems to not say, well, it's doesn't seem to agree with the rest of the Scriptures.
Lupac:
Also, I've read that some people think 2 Thess. 1:9 was referring to the Jews that were persecuting the the Church Paul was writing to. It doesn't seem to, by the context, especially verse 10. What do you think?
Kat:
Hi Lupac,
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting (eonian) punishment 2851: but the righteous into life eternal.
G2851
kolasis
From G2849; penal infliction: - punishment, torment.
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting (eonian) destruction 3639 from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power;
G3639
olethros
From ὄλλυμι ollumi a primary word (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, that is, death, punishment: - destruction.
--- Quote ---I know the punishment is only for the ages, but I never knew Paul wrote anything like that. The word olethros only shows up four times in the bible. In 1 Cor. 5:5, it talks about flesh being destroyed by Satan, so that the soul may be saved. The 2 Thess. passage seems to contradict the passage in 1 Cor. 15, saying that through Christ, all would be made alive.
--- End quote ---
Everyone that ever lives in this life will die and are spiritually lose, perished or destroyed in their sin, because they all lived subject to the carnal flesh. But this is not the destruction that leads to salvation, that only come from judgment.
Mat 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
1Ti 6:9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.
Those two verses are different Greek words, but are referring to the same thing. They are lost and destroyed in their sins and await judgment in the resurrection to condemnation.
Now the few chosen who have the LIFE of the Holy Spirit indwelling, they are being judged now. Their sins are forgiven, they are overcoming and dying to the flesh - "our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed" (Rom 6:6). They will be in the first resurrection to LIFE.
1John 2:12 I write to you, little children,
Because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake.
But those that die lose, perished or destroyed in their sin will not remain that way forever.
Mat 18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.
I hope that is helpful.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Lupac:
Thank you, I think I understand better, but here's what I'm having trouble with:
2 Thess. 1:9-10
--- Quote ---Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
--- End quote ---
That's what I'm having trouble with. It's definitely speaking of a future punishment, and not 70AD, as Jesus did not return with His saints then. The best I can gather is that Paul here is talking of when Christ first returns. At the start of the "1000-year reign", but before the LoF. Actually, that makes a lot of sense. Because Paul says in verse 11 that he prays that God would count them worthy of that calling. What do you think?
EDIT: New problem. The word for "punished" in verse 9 is G1349, dike. It's definition is:
--- Quote ---Probably from G1166; right (as self evident), that is, justice (the principle, a decision, or its execution): - judgment, punish, vengeance.
--- End quote ---
So, is Paul saying here that God's judgments are to destroy evil men? I don't think so... It's only used four times, and it doesn't seem to be at all in the same way Jesus and John talked of God's judgments. But what does it mean?
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version