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Oatmeal

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??
« on: March 13, 2010, 06:05:11 PM »

Iíve tried to find the place where Ray mentioned that Paul was expecting the second coming to be in his (Paulís) lifetime.  At least I think that I read that.  Where is the mention?  Thanks.

Second question is:  Is there any way to delete a post after it is posted?

Is this the right place for questions like this?
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From Micah 7:9:  By the grace and call of Yahweh I will bear the trials of the narrow way, because I have no love, until He fully shows me my sin and I am judged by Him.  He will bring me forth to the light, and I shall see His righteousness.

believerchrist100

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Re: ??
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2010, 06:22:49 PM »

Here's a passage from the "How We Got The Bible" conference in 2007. I think this will help.

BUTÖ. JESUS NEVER SAID WHEN HE WOULD RETURN

Mark 13:32  ďBut of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.Ē

So do you think that Jesus Christ doesnít know when He will come back?  Well that verse says so, right.  But now weíve got to ask ourselves, how little does Jesus know about His Father, His plan and prophecy?  Apparently not very much.  He doesnít even know when He going to come back.  Well I have a different take on that.

I just canít believe Christ doesnít know when Heís suppose to come.  I donít believe that.  But I also believe that this Scripture is true.  I know it sounds like a contradiction and itís only an apparent contradiction, until you put something together.  And I did put something together.
 
Why didnít Jesus know when He was in the flesh, when He would come back to rule the world?  Why didnít He know?  His Father didn't tell Him. So only the Father knows, I donít know, the angels in heaven donít know.  Only the Father knows. But now Iím saying that Jesus Christ knows.  Well if He didnít know it then, He must have learned it later on someplace.  Well I believe He did. 

Rev 1:1  A Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God GAVE to Him to show to His servants things which must shortly (quickly) come to pass. And He signified it by sending His angel to His servant John,
Rev 1:2  who bore record of the Word of God and of the testimony of Jesus Christ and of all the things that he saw.
Rev 1:3  Blessed is the one who reads and hears the Words of this prophecy, and the ones keeping the things written in it, for the time is at hand.
Rev 1:4  John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace to you and peace from Him which is and which was and which is to come; and from the seven spirits which are before His throne;
Rev 1:5  even from Jesus Christ the faithful Witness, the First-born from the dead and the Prince of the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
Rev 1:6  and made us kings and priests to God and His Father, to Him be glory and dominion for the eons of the eons.  Amen.
Rev 1:7  Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him.

This is a revelation of Christ coming, but itís a revelation of how it comes to us.  But Heís coming back to the world.  So now this is a two edged sword. 

All these intricate prophesies and then you get back when Babylon is burnt and destroyed.  We know our Babylon is destroyed, but the real Babylon out there is going to be destroyed, Mystery Babylon the Great the mother of harlots and whores, it is going to be destroyed and so on. 

This is His testimony and He doesnít know when these things are going to happen?  He knows.  There is no doubt in my mind, He knows.  Because His Father has now shown Him.  Remember He said in the book of John.  I have many things to shows you, but you canít receive them yet.  Not YET.  Now who wrote that?  Is that in Matthew?  No.  Mark?  No.  Luke?  No.  Where do we find that?  In John.  John is the only one that records that Christ said, that I have many things to show you.  Why would John write that in his gospel?  Remember the other gospels were written in the 60ís or so.  But John apparently didnít write until later, at least the late 60ís or some say all the way into the 90ís. 

Matthew, Mark and Luke are called the synoptic gospels.  Thatís because they all kind of have a chronological story flow of Christ and His ministry and His parables.
Johnís is different.  Thatís why heís not included with the other three.  Matthew, Mark and Luke are the synoptic gospels, John has his own gospel. 

John is tying up the loose ends that are not covered in the other gospels.  I mean weíve got 5 pages on just what Christ said at the last supper in John.  You go to Matthew or Mark and youíve got maybe 5 sentences.  See there is a lot of things being said and one is ďI have many things to show you.Ē

John 16:12  I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

Many things!  John wrote that.  Because John is the one that God showed ďmany thingsĒ that have to come to pass.  John remembered that, the other apostles and writers they didnít include that.  They didnít see that being fulfilled, Mark and Matthew didnít see themselves fulfilling that.  John did.  By the time John is writing his letters and his gospel, heís putting together these things.  You donít read this anywhere except Johnís account.

John 21:19  This He spoke, signifying by what death he would glorify GodÖ

There are some that would suggest that almost this whole chapter 21, might not even be in the Scriptures.  But letís look at it, because it is in here in our Bibles.  [Tischendorf does not have it in his list of spurious passages]

v. 20  Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved (John) following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, "Lord, who is the one who betrays You?"

John leaned against Christ, I mean they were close, they were bosom buddies.

v. 21  Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, "But Lord, what about this man?"

You see He had already said to Peter, ďsignifying by what death he would glorify God.Ē  I donít think Peter was to happy about that.  He knew that it was inevitable, but was not to happy to hear about it.  He said to PeterÖ

John 21:18  Öbut when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish.

You are not going to want to go where Godís going to make you go.  So Peter says, well what about John?  Whatís going to happen to your bosom buddy John here?

John 21:22  Jesus said to him, "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me."

A little bit of a put down there.

John 21:23  Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die.

But He didnít say to him, that he would not die, but "IF I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to you?Ē

v. 24  This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true.

Now John was speaking of himself in the 3rd person in verse 20, ďthe disciple which Jesus loved.Ē  He didnít say, that was me.  Heís got enough humility to say it in the 3rd person ďthe disciple.Ē  Well he was that disciple.  But you donít find this in any of the other gospels.  Why did he write that?  Because when he wrote it he knew that God was using him for more revelation.  Thatís why Jesus said, what is it to you if I have John live longer - tarry longer in life, whatís that to you if I have other plans for you. 

John looking back at what was said many years before, now writes it down, because he sees the application of it.  He sees the application that "the Spirit will lead you into all Truth."  He sees the application in his own life, ďI have many things to say unto you, but you can not receive yet,Ē not now.  But later he did.

So Jesus never said when He would return.  Itís just that from some of the things He did say, they assumed that He said that He was coming right away.  But then we have other Scripture; 

Mat 24:42  Therefore watch; for you do not know what hour your Lord comes.

Matt 25:13  Therefore watch, for you do not know either the day or the hour in which the Son of Man comes.

Mark 13:35  Watch therefore:  for you do not know when the master of the house is coming...

Acts 1:7  And He said to them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father has put in His own power. Rev 1:1  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,

This was the last time, before He was taken up into heaven, out of sight.  The Father knows, but in Rev 1:1 God gave that revelation to Jesus Christ and this whole book of Revelation is that testimony of Jesus Christ and has everything to do with His coming in us and coming back to the world to use us to convert all the nations.

Rev 5:10  And You made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign over the earth.

We will be kings and priests and we will reign with Him and it says on the earth for 1000 years.

Rev 20:4  ÖAnd they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But it is not a 1000 years, thatís a symbol for something.  I think I know what that something is now.  I know when the 1000 years ends.  But that is another subject for another time. 


         APOSTLES LEARNED ďTHE LAST DAYSÖĒ WERE YET FUTURE

The longer they went, the apostles reached a place where they realized that the last days, before the setting up of the kingdom of God, that it was a yet future time. 
The nearer Paul came to the end of his ministry, he knew that it was a future time.  He warned of a yet future time.

II Tim. 3:1  But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:

I Peter 1:5  Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
v. 6  Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
v. 7  That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
v. 8  Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
v. 9  Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
v. 10  Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
v. 11  Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified before hand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
v. 12  Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
v.13  Wherefore gird up the loins of your  mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

II Peter 3:3  knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts,

All of these Scripture show that they knew that the coming of Christ was going to be yet future.  Paul was ready to be killed knowing that Jesus Christ would not come first.
Then we reach a place where Paul says;

II Tim. 4:6  For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand.
v. 7  I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith.
v. 8  Now there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that Day; and not to me only, but also to all those who love His appearing.

But it wasnít going to happen then.


I believe he mentions it here if not maybe a passage up or down or two in this conference (refering to the transcript). As for deleting a post, someone else will have to answer that one.
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mharrell08

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Re: ??
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2010, 08:19:09 PM »

Second question is:  Is there any way to delete a post after it is posted?

Is this the right place for questions like this?


Members can remove their own post by selecting the 'remove' option. If the post was the original post used to start a thread, then a moderator must assist in removing the post in question. You can PM any moderator to make this request.


Marques
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