Could the Pharaoh have done any different?

[Lupac]

Hello. I've been talking with someone, who is a very big believer in "free-will". He stated that he "firmly believes that Pharaoh could have at any time chosen to repent and come to God, and God wouldn't have done anything else to him, but would have accepted him and his repentance."

I tried to tell him differently, but he said something that had me thinking. He said the phrase "God hardened Pharaoh's heart" means that "the idea of Israel's God hardened Pharaoh's heart", and not that God took an active role in hardening his heart. I really don't care to talk to this person anymore, he won't listen, but this question is for me. Do we have proof that God actively hardened the Pharaoh's heart? And that the Pharaoh had no choice in the matter? Thanks. (I'm reading Ray's paper on "free-will" for about the third time, there's so much in it.)

[Kat]

Hi Lupac,

Yes there is proof.

Exo 10:20  But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart...

Exo 10:27  But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart...

Exo 11:10  ...and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart..

There it is, plainly stated in the Scripture. Either you believe what the Scripture says, are you don't.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Ninny]

Bryant, I have 3 different versions and in each translation
Exo 11:10 Hence Moses and Aaron did all these miracles before Pharaoh. And Yahweh made the heart of Pharaoh steadfast, so that he did not dismiss the sons of Israel from his land. CLV
Exo 11:10 So then, Moses and Aaron, did all these wonders before Pharaoh, - but Yahweh let Pharaoh's heart wax bold, and he did not let the sons of Israel go out of his land. Rotherham's
"...and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land." Same verse KJV
This tells me that either God DID the hardening of Pharaoh's heart or God allowed the natural tendencies of his heart to go in it's course...as seems to be the case in Rotherham's BUT in any case...Pharaoh was on a course set by God and NO...I don't think he could have changed his mind...God was using the Pharaoh to put the Children of Israel on the course HE was directing...you just have to accept the fact that God is God and HE does according to His OWN will! He directs all of our lives in just this way..there are choices we can make, God is not a micro manager, but the general course of life is set by God! Pharaoh was choosing to go against God, but guess what? IT WAS GOD'S PLAN!!! God used Pharaoh's OWN natural tendencies toward his children and then took it out of Pharaoh's control!  This may just be my opinion, so maybe someone more knowledgeable can help you better!
Kathy    

[Marky Mark]

http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html

The Lake of Fire - Part 15

Installment XV - Part A

The Myth of Free-Will Exposed

DID PHARAOH HAVE FREE WILL?

We will now look at some of the most profound and yet most misunderstood and not believed Scriptures in the entire Bible.

"For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion" (Rom. 9:15).

Just who is in control in this statement, puny man or God? Man's will is not free to contradict what God says He WILL DO.

"So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but OF GOD that shows mercy" (Ver. 16).

What puny man "wills" has absolutely nothing to do with what God WILL DO.

"For the Scripture says unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised you up, that I might show My powers in you, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore has He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens" (Vers. 17-18).

Pharaoh did not harden his own heart—God said that He hardened it.

Remember I said that God has a stated will as a goal and an active will in the plan or process of obtaining His stated will? Right here we can see this principle in action:

God states His will:

"Then the Lord said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh, and tell him, Thus says the Lord God of the Hebrews, Let my people go..." (Ex. 9:1).

There is God's stated will—He wants Pharaoh to "Let my people go..." But does God expect or even want His "will be done on earth" at the time that He declares it? Obviously not. In fact, it is God Himself, Who prevents Pharaoh from doing God's stated will of letting His people go. Notice it:
 
"And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh and he hearkened not unto them, as the Lord had spoken unto Moses" (Ver. 12).
Most Christians just plain refuse to believe these very simple Scriptures. Yet the ramifications of these Scriptural truths are enormous. Notice what God did with Pharaoh:

First God tells Moses to tell Pharaoh to "to let My people go." And Pharaoh would have let the Hebrews go. Sure he would, had not God Himself intervened. Why would Pharaoh let them go? Because Pharaoh's heart was both soft and weak. A soft and weak heart was no match for God. Pharaoh would have caved in and let His people go. But God did not want Pharaoh to let His people go. He asked Pharaoh to let His people go, but He didn't want Pharaoh to let them go this easily.

Next God has to do something in order to prevent Pharaoh from letting His people go. God actually wants Pharaoh to go against His stated will. God's stated will is "let My people go," but God doesn't want Pharaoh to do God's stated will at this time. He wants Pharaoh to resist God.

God has not changed, God still wants mankind to resist Him. But Pharaoh (just like the rest of humanity) is too weak and soft to resist God. So what does God do? Two things:

"And I will harden [Heb: qashah—to make hard] Pharaoh's heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay My hand upon Egypt, and bring forth Mine armies, and My people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments. And the Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord, when I stretch forth Mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them"

After God hardens Pharaoh's heart [makes it harder than it was], and Pharaoh resists God's will and refuses to let the Hebrews go, God then puts greater and greater plagues upon Egypt until even hard-hearted Pharaoh gives in and lets the people go. But notice what God does after this.

"For Pharaoh will say of the children of Israel, They are entangled in the land, the wilderness has shut them in. And I will harden [Heb: chazaq—to make strong and courageous] Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the Lord. And they did so" (Ex. 14:3-4).
Pharaoh was naturally too soft of heart to resist letting the Hebrews go, and so God hardened his soft heart so that he would resist and would not let the people go until God first made a great display of His strength to the Egyptians. And after Pharaoh did let the people go, God wanted Pharaoh to try and follow after them and kill them. But this time we find that Pharaoh's heart was too weak. And so again, God strengthens and gives courage to Pharaoh's weak heart, and Pharaoh charges after Israel only to be totally defeated by God in the Red Sea.

Well, there it is. How hard is that to understand? But who will believe it? From Pharaoh's birth until his death, God had a purpose for Pharaoh's life, and God controlled every aspect of it. Pharaoh had not "free will" in any of these events. God changes not; He operates the same way in everyone's life. You will either be a vessel of honor or a vessel of dishonor, and it is ALL UP TO GOD!





Peace...Mark

[arion]

"And I will harden [Heb: qashah—to make hard] Pharaoh's heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay My hand upon Egypt, and bring forth Mine armies, and My people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments. And the Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord, when I stretch forth Mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them"


It's really hard to argue with that especially considering that we have several other scriptural witnesses that God himself was the one who hardened Pharoah's heart.  But you should probably save your breath because the 'free willers' won't believe this truth because it torpedos their idol of the heart.  It takes as much a miracle of God to open their hearts to this truth as it did for God to harden Pharoah's heart in the first place.  You can put the truth in front of their noses and they simply can't see it......or won't see it.

[Craig]

I tried to tell him differently, but he said something that had me thinking. He said the phrase "God hardened Pharaoh's heart" means that "the idea of Israel's God hardened Pharaoh's heart", and not that God took an active role in hardening his heart.

Here's the deal, you are going to have to make a decision.  You have questioned over and over again, you have been presented scriptures that make the answers to the questions obvious, like Kat in this thread.

Exo 10:20  But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart...

Exo 10:27  But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart...

Exo 11:10  ...and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart..

I understand your worry and thoughts, I even understand your doubts.  The time has come though, where you need to listen the the inner voice who has led you here, turn your worries over to God and Christ and live a life as a follower of Christ.  Or....continue talking to those who are not being shown the truth, and visit websites of those who try and tear down our loving Father and replace Him with a pagan god.  You need to decide.

You've straddled the fence long enough, now is the time to get on your feet and start maturing in the word of God.

Craig

[Marky Mark]

You've straddled the fence long enough, now is the time to get on your feet and start maturing in the word of God.

Craig

Lupac,believe the Word and move forward in your walk with Christ.


Mat 15:9  Their worship of me is pointless, because their teachings are rules made by humans.'"

Isa 29:13 And saying is Yahweh, "Forasmuch as close to Me is this people with their mouth, and with their lips they glorify Me, yet their heart is far from Me, and their fear of Me is becoming as the instruction of mortals' teaching."


Peace...Mark

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Lupac

Instead of trying to understand the blind, try to understand the believers who are not decieved regarding the false teachers and in reference to their loving council towards you. Take no offence.

Hello. I've been talking with someone, who is a very big believer in "free-will". He stated that he "firmly believes that Pharaoh could have at any time chosen to repent

Their "firm belief" carries a lot of hype that appears convincing. Don't let the emotion of conviction self assurance and pride filled self confidence, fool you Lupac! Their convictions are empty and their confidence is blind.

Pro 14:2  He that walketh in his uprightness feareth the LORD: but he that is perverse in his ways despiseth Him.

Your "firm believer" firmly believes that he commands, directs and supervises the goodness of God by which we repent.


Rom 2:4  Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

So a firm believer in free will, despises, loathes and derides the riches of Gods goodness. He looks down on and hates the forbearance, self-control, tolerance, leniency, mercy and patience of God.  He  scorns and spurns the longsuffering, forgiving and tolerance of God. He does not know that all these fine, wonderful and magnificent attributes of God through God's Goodness, LEADS, shows the way, directs, guides and escorts us to repentance.

he "firmly believes that Pharaoh could have at any time .............come to God,

Don't be decieved on how firmly he believes in a lie or a false teaching Lupac. Has he ever gone to see any human being without an appointment? Can you or I go to any professional person worth their salt, without permission? How does this firm believer imagine it is possible to see God who is higher than any person, greater than any office held by any person and more Holy than anyone, how can this person you were talking to, how can such a belief hold any sanity? It is insane!

and God wouldn't have done anything else to him, but would have accepted him and his repentance."

So God accepts human repentance. God takes direction from humans. What does this person really think of God? How much  contempt for God can one single person have?

I tried to tell him differently, but he said something that had me thinking. He said the phrase "God hardened Pharaoh's heart" means that "the idea of Israel's God hardened Pharaoh's heart",

So the Word of God is worth nothing right? When God says HE hardened Pharaoh's heart, it means a nation named Israel who had an idea of God is what hardened the heart of Pharaoh. God actually had nothing to do with it. The nation Israel is more important, ranks higher and is the reason why Pharaoh got the idea and was influenced by a nation not by God even though God said He was the cause. That simply does not count.

and not that God took an active role in hardening his heart. I really don't care to talk to this person anymore, he won't listen, but this question is for me. Do we have proof that God actively hardened the Pharaoh's heart?

Jesus Christ showed where the PROOF is. When He had a famous exchange with Satan, the PROOF that Jesus referred to which was good enough for Satan, was when Jesus said....IT IS WRITTEN.

If you go to court, what is WRITTEN has power. If you can say something, anything, and cannot put it in writing, then it is worth nothing. Contracts are in writing. God's Word is a contract to us and it carries the Authority that is higher than any human court or judiciary of the earth. Think about that.

And that the Pharaoh had no choice in the matter? Thanks. (I'm reading Ray's paper on "free-will" for about the third time, there's so much in it.)

Neither have you had any "choice" but to write to the Forum and ask your question. Neither did Judas Iscariot have any choice but to go and do quickly what he was caused by his own preferences from his weak heart, to go and do.

No choice can so often feel to mean as if there are no other options. Of course there are OPTIONS there is only ONE PREFERANCE. The one preference we all make in the face of many or several or only two choices, is EVERY TIME the ONE preference above all options that we can make. That preference reflects out of our heart condition. The weaker the heart, the less Godly the preferences.

Look at what you have been listening to and look at what it means to accomodate a person who believes in free will,  and then maybe you can decide where you prefer to be aquainted.  

Arc

[Phil3:10]

Lupac,
GOD'S will and not free will and final reconciliation not hell makes so much more sense to me. This has helped me so much in my daily life. All is of GOD, carnal man is so very little but GOD does have a wonderful plan for all.  Craig is so very right, just believe and your life will be so much more simple. GOD is so far beyond any conception that the mind of man can conceive that we will never be able to understand HIS greatness. Just honor and praise HIS wonderful name.
In HIM,
Phil3:10

[Roy Coates]

(KJV) Jer 10:2a Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, ..........

[Joel]

Where is the scripture to back up this man's idea?
Just the idea its self contradicts Jesus statement.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joel

[Billy Bob White]

Hi, Lupac

I'm called Billy Bob White.  I have read all the comments on your thread "could the pharoah have done it any different"?  I'm sure with the reading that you've done on Bible Truths you know the answer to this.  But just in case you don't, would you please consider reading Matthew 11:25-29.  And pray for understanding about the yoke of Jesus. It makes living a life as a human being so very simple and without worry.  And then there is this:  John 6:44 once you have read these I have to ask you a question.  Are you serious about asking this question about the pharoah or are you playing games with the forum members?  Whichever it is, you're doing a good job.  I see that you have at least 2 or 3 members breaking forum rules and trying to teach you something that can only be accomplished by God. 

Your friend in Christ
B.B.W.

[Lupac]

Hi, Lupac

I'm called Billy Bob White.  I have read all the comments on your thread "could the pharoah have done it any different"?  I'm sure with the reading that you've done on Bible Truths you know the answer to this.  But just in case you don't, would you please consider reading Matthew 11:25-29.  And pray for understanding about the yoke of Jesus. It makes living a life as a human being so very simple and without worry.  And then there is this:  John 6:44 once you have read these I have to ask you a question.  Are you serious about asking this question about the pharoah or are you playing games with the forum members?  Whichever it is, you're doing a good job.  I see that you have at least 2 or 3 members breaking forum rules and trying to teach you something that can only be accomplished by God. 

Your friend in Christ
B.B.W.

It frustrates me to no end, to know that not only is it so hard for me to learn and believe these things, but there are people watching, and thinking I'm "playing games" or just flat out lying. I'm not. Thanks everyone, who seriously replied to my topic. I'm trying...

[Dave in Tenn]

Thanks also from me to everybody who seriously replied to the topic.  The question was asked.  The question was answered in numerous ways.  We can't force anybody to 'believe our report'.  It's especially difficult when that person is someone, who is a very big believer in "free-will" and not the person asking the question. 

I doubt he even knows we are even arguing with him.  I don't believe he would mind me locking the thread. 

Rom 10:14  How then may they call on One into whom they have not believed? And how may they believe One of whom they have not heard? And how may they hear without preaching?
Rom 10:15  And how may they preach if they are not sent? Even as it has been written, "How beautiful" "the feet of those preaching the gospel of peace, of those preaching the gospel of good things." Isa. 52:7
Rom 10:16  But not all obeyed the gospel, for Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" Isa. 53:1
Rom 10:17  Then faith is of hearing, and hearing through the Word of God.
Rom 10:18  But I say, Did they not hear? Yes, rather, "into all the earth their voice went out, and to the ends of the world their words." LXX-Psa. 18:5; MT-Psa. 19:4
Rom 10:19  But I say, Did not Israel know? First, Moses says, "I will provoke you to jealousy by a non-nation, by an unwise nation I will anger you." Deut. 32:21
Rom 10:20  But Isaiah is very bold and says, "I was found by those not seeking Me; I became known to those not inquiring after Me." Isa. 65:1
Rom 10:21  But to Israel He says, "All the day I stretched out My hands to a disobeying and contradicting people." Isa. 65:2

[Kat]

The thing is Lupac, you are resisting the Scriptures. You are always seeking more "proof" and what more can be provided? The Scriptures are the backbone of the BT site, they are what all of us here rely on. A good argument against what the Scriptures say, should not cause you to waver and question them.

Eph 4:14  so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.

James 1:5  If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all men generously and without reproaching, and it will be given him.
v. 6  But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.
v. 7  For that person must not suppose that a double-minded man,
v. 8  unstable in all his ways, will receive anything from the Lord.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[onelovedread]

For the Word of God is living and operative, and keen above any two-edged sword, and penetrating up to the parting of the soul and spirit, both of the articulations and marrow, and is a judge of the sentiments and thoughts of the heart. Heb 4:12

Now apart from faith it is impossible to be well pleasing, for he who is coming to God must believe that He is, and is becoming a Rewarder of those who are seeking Him out. Heb 11:6

One Love, Lupac

[jeetkunejimi]

Hi Lupac,
             basically your friends naive, he thinks that he can un-ring a bell,lol. Jesus does the dragging of all mankind unto repentance, man can hardly drag himself out of bed in the morning never mind to repentance from his sinful nature. The foreknowledge of God destroys 'FREE' will, totally on the potters floor:))).

[daywalker]

Hello. I've been talking with someone, who is a very big believer in "free-will". He stated that he "firmly believes that Pharaoh could have at any time chosen to repent and come to God, and God wouldn't have done anything else to him, but would have accepted him and his repentance."

I tried to tell him differently, but he said something that had me thinking. He said the phrase "God hardened Pharaoh's heart" means that "the idea of Israel's God hardened Pharaoh's heart", and not that God took an active role in hardening his heart. I really don't care to talk to this person anymore, he won't listen, but this question is for me. Do we have proof that God actively hardened the Pharaoh's heart? And that the Pharaoh had no choice in the matter? Thanks. (I'm reading Ray's paper on "free-will" for about the third time, there's so much in it.)

Lupac,

You have TWO choices:


A. You believe what the Scriptures say.

-or-

B. You don't believe what the Scriptures say, and be like your friend who adds/takes away words from the Scriptures to fit his man-made doctrines.


Yes.. It IS that simple!



From the Concordant Literal Version:

Deuteronomy 4:2 You shall neither add to the word that I am enjoining on you, nor shall you subtract from it, but observe the instructions of Yahweh your Elohim that I am enjoining on you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 Every word which I am enjoining on you today, you shall observe to obey it. You shall neither add to it, nor shall you subtract from it.
 
Proverbs 30:5 Every saying of Eloah is refined; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
6 Do not add to His words, Lest He should correct you, and you be proved a liar.

Revelation 22:18 I am testifying to everyone who is hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If ever anyone may be appending to them, God shall be appending to him the calamities written in this scroll.
19 And if ever anyone should be eliminating from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall be eliminating his part from the log of life, and out of the holy city, that is written in this scroll.


Peace,

Daywalker.

[aqrinc]

You have TWO choices:

A. You believe what the Scriptures say.

-or-

B. You don't believe what the Scriptures say, and be like your friend who adds/takes away words from the Scriptures to fit his man-made doctrines.

Yes.. It IS that simple!

Just a point of information, The Bible/s are not the inspired word of God, they are all bollixed up by man's traditions and doctrines being substituted many places in every translation. If any open eyed person is expected to take the Bible/s as written for the inspired word, we have a problem Houston.

Now if we are talking Scripture (Inspired Word Of God) that is a whole different story, but that is why we study, question ,search, Pray, prove and test every single word any man utters or writes.

Mat 9:16-17 (MKJV)
16  No one puts a piece of new cloth onto an old garment; for that which is put in to fill it up takes from the garment, and the tear is made worse.
17  Nor do men put new wine into old wineskins; else the wineskins burst, and the wine runs out, and the wineskins perish. But they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved together.

The chapter below is now starting to make a lot more sense, if new wine is poured into the old containers, it is way too strong and will get all those using the old containers for their new wine drunk (confused?).

Isa 28:1-29 (BBE)
1  Ho! crown of pride of those who are given up to wine in Ephraim, and the dead flower of his glory which is on the head of those who are overcome by strong drink!
2  See, the Lord has a strong and cruel one; like a rain of ice, a storm of destruction, like the overflowing of a strong river, he will violently overcome them.

3  The crown of pride of those who are given up to wine in Ephraim will be crushed under foot;
4  And the dead flower of his glory, which is on the head of the fertile valley, will be like the first early fruit before the summer; which a man takes and puts in his mouth the minute he sees it.

5  In that day will the Lord of armies be a crown of glory, and a fair ornament, to the rest of his people;
6  And a spirit of wisdom to the judge, and strength to those who keep back the attackers at the door of the town.

7  And further, these are uncertain through wine, and have gone out of the right way through strong drink: the priest and the prophet are uncertain through strong drink, they are overcome by wine, they have gone out of the way through strong drink; their vision is false, they go wrong in their decisions.
8  For all the tables are covered with coughed-up food, so that there is not a clean place.

9  To whom will he give knowledge? and to whom will he make clear the word? Will it be to those who have newly given up milk, and who have only now been taken from the breast?
10  For it is one rule after another; one line after another; here a little, there a little.

11  No, but with broken talk, and with a strange tongue, he will give his word to this people:
12  To whom he said, This is the rest, give rest to him who is tired; and by this you may get new strength; but they would not give ear.

13  For this cause the word of the Lord will be to them rule after rule, line after line, here a little, there a little; so that they may go on their way, and falling back may be broken, and taken in the net.

14  Give ear then to the word of the Lord, you men of pride, the rulers of this people in Jerusalem:
15  Because you have said, We have made death our friend, and with the underworld we have made an agreement; when the overflowing waters come through they will not come near us; for we are looking to false words for help, taking cover in what is untrue:

16  For this cause says the Lord God, See, I am placing in Zion as a base, a stone, a tested stone, an angle-stone which is certain and of great value: and he who has faith will not give way.
17  And I will make right decision the measuring-line, and righteousness the weight: and the ice-storm will take away the safe place of false words, and the secret place will be covered by the flowing waters.

18  And the help you were looking for from death will come to nothing, and your agreement with the underworld will be broken; when the overflowing waters come through, then you will be overcome by them.
19  Whenever they come through they will overtake you; for they will come through morning after morning, by day and by night: and the news will be nothing but fear.
20  For the bed is not long enough for a man to be stretched out on: and the cover is not wide enough for him to be covered with.

21  For the Lord will come up as on Mount Perazim, he will be moved to wrath as in the valley of Gibeon; so that he may do his work--strange is his work; and give effect to his act--unnatural is his act.

22  And now, take care that you do not make sport of him, or your bands will be made strong; for I have had word from the Lord, the Lord of armies, of an end, of a complete end, which is to come on all the land.
23  Let your ears be open to my voice; give attention to what I say.

24  Is the ploughman for ever ploughing? does he not get the earth ready and broken up for the seed?
25  When the face of the earth has been levelled, does he not put in the different sorts of seed, and the grain in lines, and the barley in its place, and the spelt at the edge?
26  For his God is his teacher, giving him the knowledge of these things.

27  For the fitches are not crushed with a sharp instrument, and a cart-wheel is not rolled over the cummin; but the grain of the fitches is hammered out with a stick, and of the cummin with a rod.
28  Is the grain for bread crushed? He does not go on crushing it for ever, but he lets his cart-wheels and his horses go over it without crushing it.
29  This comes from the Lord of armies, purposing wonders, and wise in all his acts.

(GNB)Isa 28:29  All this wisdom comes from the LORD Almighty. The plans God makes are wise, and they always succeed.

george .

[judith collier]

Lupac, for about a year I was going through something that to this day I do not understand. I had been a believer for over 60 yrs, and for no reason I can recall I started to question the Divinity of Christ. I thought perhaps I had been duped. For me to say this is unbelievable even to me.
The fact that I had  experienced the Holy Spirit many times makes me wonder what in heaven came over me. My heart was hardening toward Christ. It was a battle that I never want to go through again. It was foolish that I entertained these thoughts but it continued until I saw myself separting from the love of God and a great fear came over me that I might never be able to find my way back. I knew it was now or never to firmly and swiftly stop this, but I couldn't. I prayed even though it was repugnant to me and I cried out to God to deliver me from this. I crawled back to God inch by inch only by His grace. I chose Christ once and for all and this when in total darkness and God was merciful to me and brought me back to life. I wonder to this day what God's purpose was for that experience. Until today I have never mentioned this to another human  being. You have to choose Lupac who you will serve and believe. You cannot go half way and nurse doubts. Question, yes, but there comes a time when you have to say yes or no to God. With love, judy