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God Knows All?
Deborah-Leigh:
--- Quote ---Adam and Eve (us) created with weak hearts. Would you say they were created with natural hearts? How about carnal?
--- End quote ---
Yes. That is also in line with what Ray has shared and encourages us to believe, as the Scriptures declare:
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Were Adam and Eve Spiritual and in the Image of God? NO.
1Co 15:44 …………There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and AFTERWARD that which is spiritual.
Ray expounds from the Scriptures that Adam and Eve were indeed CARNAL.
--- Quote ---Please describe a Babylonian
--- End quote ---
A Babylonian is a member of Christendom. Babylon is spiritual city where Satan has his throne.
Rev 2:13 Satan's throne is there; and yet you are true to Me, and did not deny your faith in Me, even in the days of Antipas My witness and faithful friend, who was put to death among you, in the place where Satan dwells.
The Church, Christendom, Judaism, the Whore, Mystery Babylon the Great all refer to spiritual Babylon that has thousands of harlot daughters.
--- Quote ---…Debate is wrong but if the motive is pure then………………. I love a good honest, uplifting debate. It’s hard to control the emotions sometimes but what’s wrong with a little heat? I see Ray use it and of course I see that Jesus used it.
--- End quote ---
Refuting with evidence and exposing those who contradict is entirely another subject. By contrast , debate is a hobby and entertainment for fun.
REFUTING with evidence by rebuttal, proves false those who contradict God, which brings hate, persecution and in the case of Jesus, crucifixion. No one goes after a death sentence for the fun of it.
What Ray and Jesus and Paul do is they REFUTE and EXPOSE with evidence the false assumptions and idolatry of the Pharisees and Religious Scholars and Lawyers of the day. This earnt the death penalty for both Jesus and Paul and for Ray, it has not resulted in worldly gains in popularity, but persecution and resistance.
--- Quote ---I have to believe you have many spiritual brothers and sisters
--- End quote ---
Good catch. :)
I have more presence, more brethren, here in the Forum than in the world.
Thank you for your kind words.
Arc
claypot:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on March 22, 2010, 02:30:18 PM ---
Were Adam and Eve Spiritual and in the Image of God? NO.
--- End quote ---
I agree. You do see Adam and Eve as us, all of us don’t you?
--- Quote from: Arcturus on March 22, 2010, 02:30:18 PM ---
Ray expounds from the Scriptures that Adam and Eve were indeed CARNAL.
--- End quote ---
Amen and amen.
--- Quote from: Arcturus on March 22, 2010, 02:30:18 PM ---
A Babylonian is a member of Christendom. Babylon is spiritual city where Satan has his throne.
Rev 2:13 Satan's throne is there; and yet you are true to Me, and did not deny your faith in Me, even in the days of Antipas My witness and faithful friend, who was put to death among you, in the place where Satan dwells.
The Church, Christendom, Judaism, the Whore, Mystery Babylon the Great all refer to spiritual Babylon that has thousands of harlot daughters.
--- End quote ---
I’m a bit confused here. So when you said you talked to a Babylonian are you saying a person who is true to Jesus?
--- Quote from: Arcturus on March 22, 2010, 02:30:18 PM ---
Refuting with evidence and exposing those who contradict is entirely another subject. By contrast , debate is a hobby and entertainment for fun.
REFUTING with evidence by rebuttal, proves false those who contradict God, which brings hate, persecution and in the case of Jesus, crucifixion. No one goes after a death sentence for the fun of it.
What Ray and Jesus and Paul do is they REFUTE and EXPOSE with evidence the false assumptions and idolatry of the Pharisees and Religious Scholars and Lawyers of the day. This earnt the death penalty for both Jesus and Paul and for Ray, it has not resulted in worldly gains in popularity, but persecution and resistance.
--- End quote ---
In what I term debating I always sought to accomplish exactly as you described above although I did so much so imperfectly. I so like Ray’s writings because I feel like they resonate within my being as if I and they were one. He seems far beyond me and I suppose that is why God sent me to him and to people like you.
Cp
Deborah-Leigh:
--- Quote ---You do see Adam and Eve as us, all of us don’t you?
--- End quote ---
Nope :D I am not Eve. I am Deborah :)
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the LAST Adam was made a quickening spirit.
I asked if Adam and Eve were in the Image of God. I answered that No they were not. I referred to the scriptures that are carried in Rays papers who better expounds this topic in much greater detail. :)
--- Quote ---you said you talked to a Babylonian are you saying a person who is true to Jesus
--- End quote ---
No again. :)
Ref to :
LOF 11
Virtually all Christian Churches worldwide have within their doctrines, the depths of Satan. And that is why the cry goes out from God Almighty:
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying ‘COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).
Come out of… who? Who is the "her?" Her is a WOMAN. A woman in Scripture is a symbol for a CHURCH.
Who is to "come out?" Answer: "MY people." Where are they? In her, in the CHURCH. What Church? The MOTHER CHURCH. Who is the MOTHER CHURCH?
The church that appears to be so good, with good doctrines, and good teachings and spiritual appearing good works and righteousness, which in reality are abominations:
"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto you the judgment of the GREAT WHORE that sits upon many waters [many nations of people]: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication [intimate religious/political/economic relationships], and the inhabitants of the earth have been made [spiritually] DRUNK with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of ABOMINATIONS and FILTHINESS of her FORNICATION: And upon her forehead [where WE should have the name of God our Father, Rev. 14:1, but this mother church has instead…] …a name written,
MYSTERY, BABYLON, THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Rev. 17:1-5).
So here is the worldwide mother church with her many catholic and protestant daughters, that sits upon many nations of people, holding a spiritual looking gold cup that when one partakes of it and drinks it down inside, it is really filled with, "abominations and filthiness"—instead of being the marvelous spiritual "DEPTHS of God" it is rather, "the DEPTHS of Satan.
Arc
claypot:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on March 22, 2010, 02:30:18 PM ---
A Babylonian is a member of Christendom. Babylon is spiritual city where Satan has his throne.
Rev 2:13 Satan's throne is there; and yet you are true to Me, and did not deny your faith in Me, even in the days of Antipas My witness and faithful friend, who was put to death among you, in the place where Satan dwells.
--- End quote ---
Hi Arc, I see in this quote you put forth that it says “and yet you are true to Me’ so it seems there are those within Babylon who are true to Jesus.
cp
Kat:
Hi Claypot,
Rev 2:13 Satan's throne is there; and yet you are true to Me, and did not deny your faith in Me, even in the days of Antipas My witness and faithful friend, who was put to death among you, in the place where Satan dwells.
"Satan's throne is there" in the church: "and yet you are true to Me" these are those that "come out of her My people" (Rev. 18:4). The church is the called/many and the chosen/few come out of the church.
Here is an excerpt from article 8 'What Happened to the Church Jesus Built?'
http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html -----------------
DEFINING "CHURCH"
Just what is a "church?" Strong’s Greek Dictionary, #1570. ekklesia, a calling out. (1b) Ekklesia, from ek, "out of," and klesis, "a calling…" So the church is those whom God has CALLED OUT to be His "called out ones," hence, Jesus said, "So the last shall be first, and the first shall be last [sorry, don’t have time to explain this unique statement of our Lord]: for many be called, but few chosen." I will take the time to explain this second statement, however.
Notice that the "called" and the "chosen" cannot be the same group, as one is "many" and the other is "few." God has given us a general statement as to whom He has called and whom He has not called. We already know the number of those called is "many." Now we will see the two general classifications of those called:
THE "CALLED" AND THE "NOT CALLED"
"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many [some, but not many] wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
But God has chosen the foolish things [many translations do not insert the word "things" in these verses] of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And the base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yes, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: that no flesh should glory in His presence" (I Cor. 1:26-29).
So we see that God calls MOSTLY those who are: weak, base, despised, nothings! Are we to believe that God is going to build a SPIRITUAL ARMY of Sons and Daughters by which He will conquer and SAVE THE WORLD?
Hard to believe, isn’t it? I think we can all agree that there is a great deal of work to be done with and to these "nothings of the world" whom God is calling to such a formidable, once-in-an-eternity task!
But of the "many called," we are told, "few are chosen" (Matt. 20:16). Why is that? God has intended it to be such. We are given the parable of the "sower of seed" where much of the seed fell by the side of the tilled soil, and the birds ate it; some had no depth and withered in the sun; still more fell among thorns and were chocked, but some fell upon good soil and produced much fruit. Many seed are sown, but few seed produce good fruit. "Seed" we see everywhere in the Church; "fruit" of God’s spirit is more rare. These few have the added designation of:
"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).
These are the "very elect" who cannot be deceived any longer by the Great Whore, "Mystery Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots, and the Abominations of the earth."
One more important verse regarding our calling, that I will cite out of the Concordant Literal New Testament because I believe they translate the Greek aorist tense properly, whereas the King James uses the past tense:
"Now we are aware that GOD [it is unfortunate that the King James leaves out "God" even though it is in the manuscripts. Most translations do put "God" in this opening phrase. Things don’t just ‘work’ together without GOD doing the ‘working’] is working all together for the good of those who are loving God, who are [being] called according to the purpose that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren. Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls [not ‘called’ as all are NOT YET called, it is the aorist tense] also, and whom He calls, these He justifies, also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also" (Rom. 8:28:30).
Now, pay attention: All which God foreknew, He then designates beforehand (He hand-picks them, if you will). And therefore, since He has already designated them beforehand, when they are born in whatever generation God designates; He then calls them. Now it is true that God calls MANY OTHERS whom He has NOT designated to be "conformed to the image of His Son" AT THE TIME that each generation appears in history.
There are many more "called" in each generation than are actually, "chosen" to be conformed to the image of His Son at that time.
All that are not chosen will be in the second resurrection/white throne judgment/lake of fire. These will go the "broad way into destruction" from which they will await judgment at the great white throne. But, those which God foreknows and designates beforehand, He definitely does call, but these designated ones GO ON to be JUSTIFIED AND GLORIFIED. They are not just the "called," but the "called AND CHOSEN" which will go on to glorification in service with Christ, as the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, in the Kingdom of God, to bring the rest of heaven and earth to SALVATION!
When Jesus says that,
"Many will say unto me in that day, Lord, Lord… Then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity" (Matt. 722-23),
He is not speaking of a minority but a majority. The "many" NEVER means the minority!
We will see it conclusively proved from God’s Word that the majority in the Church today are going the "broad way," and not the "straight and narrow way." And I am not just preaching to the choir when I say that only a "FEW" will be in the first resurrection and rule and reign with Christ, I am speaking to all the church and to myself as well. I know these aren’t the "soft" words that tickle people’s ears, but what I am telling you is a "hard saying" of the Scripture that is absolutely true. Jesus Christ Himself said that "THE MANY" must "DEPART from Me." Jesus doesn’t "know" the many, in a spiritual relationship, because they are too carnal to be spiritual.
ARE YOU "CALLED AND CHOSEN" OR JUST "CALLED?"
Let me first state that there is an order in the process of being called to Sonship. First you are called, and then you are chosen from among the called. And we have already learned that the "chosen" are also the "few."
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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