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Concerning God's Will/Intention
Ricky:
Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 15-C (http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html):
CAN YOU HANDLE THE TRUTH?Jesus is at the scene of every crime in the world, and He is there before the crime actually happens. What would Jesus say to a woman if she were in the presence of some slimeball who is hell-bent on raping her little daughter? We know that Jesus is there, but what if Jesus manifested Himself right there, at the scene? What would Jesus say when the woman would beg Him to stop this slimeball from raping or murdering her daughter?
Surely He would stop the crime, right? Well if that be the case, how come there are so many rapes and murders that have not been prevented by Jesus? Do not all parents (almost all) pray for the safety of their children? So the pat Christian answer is: “Well, we don’t know why, but God allowed it.” God no more allows crimes that harm one or two individuals than he allows tsunamies that harm and hundreds of thousands.
I am well aware of the fact that Jesus does at times intervene and stop some crime or evil from taking place. I am now referring to those times when He does not intervene and stop the crime. Why does He “allow” it?
You say, “Well, nobody knows the answer to that!” Oh but we do know the answer. The Scriptures give us the answer. We don’t want the Scriptural answer. We don’t want the truth. We can’t handle the truth. And woe to the messenger who delivers the truth!
And just what do we think we gain by using the catch phrase: “God allowed it?” Does that phrase get God off the hook of responsibility and place the responsibility upon His mal-functioning inventions? Does the word “allow” carry the connotation: “I had nothing to do with it?” “My hands are clean?” “It’s not my job to prevent evil crimes?” Is this what the word “allow” really means?
The American Heritage College Dictionary:
“ allow v. –lowed, -lowing, -lows. 1. To LET do or happen; PERMIT.”
“permit v. –mitted, -mitting, -mits. 1. To ALLOW the doing of; CONSENT. 2. To GRANT. 3. To AFFORD OPPORTUNITY.
Now then, do we feel better about this theological heresy and nonsense by using the word “allow”? If a Police Officer were to, LET HAPPEN, PERMIT, CONSENT, GRANT, and AFFORD OPPORTUNITY for a horrible crime to take place without lifting a finger to stop it, would he be morally guiltless for “allowing” it to happen? Does the catch phrase “allow” with all of its definitions somehow make void the responsibility of the Police Officer? Is God Almighty less capable and less responsible than even a carnal-minded Police Officer?
Why then do theologians invent their own solution to the problem by applying the unscriptural word “allow” to the acts of God, rather than to accept the plain truth of Scripture concerning these matters? Well, for the exact same reason they invent the unscriptural phrase “free-will” to get God off of the hook of responsibility for the evils in God’s Own creation! They don’t want the truth; they can’t handle the truth; the truth would convict their own evil and carnal-minded hearts, and they would be forced to humble themselves and repent!
Could any of us honestly say with respect to our presence at an imminent crime, that if we: “allowed, let happen, permitted to happen, consented to its happening, granted it to happen, and afforded it the opportunity to happen,” then our hands are clean? We have no involvement in the crime? We had no obligations, and we are not to be held accountable and responsible?
You know that I speak the truth, but many of you can’t handle the truth.
So am I saying that since God is the Creator of all, and Sustainer of all, and by Him all things Consist, and He already knows all that is and will be, and He works all things after the counsel of His Own will, that all of the crimes of the world are a part of God’s plan? No, that is not my teaching. But this is precisely what the Scriptures say! This is not some perverted theory. I read it in the Bible—in hundreds and hundreds of places!
I have no problem in justifying God in all of His doings, even though I personally am overwhelmed at times over the magnitude of pain and evil that God has subjected us to. It is humbling! It surely does produce God’s desired purpose, and I can personally attest to this fact. Inventing an unscriptural and anti-scriptural term like "human free will" or "free choice" does not remove the consequences of evil from God's shoulders.
Hi, I have many questions with this one. Jesus does stop SOME crime and SOME evil from taking place or happening. What crimes and what evils does He stop. This makes no sense to me (as always) What scripture says He stops this and that from happening.
Ricky
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Ricky on March 21, 2010, 10:53:13 PM ---Hi, I have many questions with this one. Jesus does stop SOME crime and SOME evil from taking place or happening. What crimes and what evils does He stop. This makes no sense to me (as always) What scripture says He stops this and that from happening.
Ricky
--- End quote ---
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Col 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Ricky,
When a crime is thwarted, who do you believe is ultimately responsible if not God?
Marques
Ricky:
Marques, where do we hear or read of crimes being stopped by anyone? I have never heard of this being done anywhere by anyone. Can you show me 1 or 2 crimes or evils that have been thwarted by someone. This is what does not make sense to me, how does God use man to stop a crime that we will never hear about ? how do we know it was even going to happen ? And when God does stop a crime, WHEN did He do this, at the time just before the crime was to happen or did He stop it thousands of years ago, life is supposed to be predestined.
Ricky
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Ricky on March 22, 2010, 10:34:59 AM ---Marques, where do we hear or read of crimes being stopped by anyone? I have never heard of this being done anywhere by anyone. Can you show me 1 or 2 crimes or evils that have been thwarted by someone. This is what does not make sense to me, how does God use man to stop a crime that we will never hear about ? how do we know it was even going to happen ? And when God does stop a crime, WHEN did He do this, at the time just before the crime was to happen or did He stop it thousands of years ago, life is supposed to be predestined.
Ricky
--- End quote ---
Ricky,
I am not stating that when a crime is stopped that this was not against God's intention. On the contrary, God intends for many wrong doings to be uncovered and/or prevented. As He also intends that some do not.
Just here in Atlanta, there was a man who broke out of prison, killing a number of people in his path. This prisoner then took a young woman hostage in her own home. When the police and FBI finally arrived at her residence, and after some talk with offender, he surrendered peacefully and no one else was injured. You can read the entire account here.
Now then, what else but God prevented this man from hurting the woman he took hostage as well as going out in a 'blaze of glory' with the police instead of surrendering and facing a lifetime in prison? 'In Him we live, and move and have our being'...The Hand of the Lord was over every circumstance in this event. From the breaking out of prison, to the taking of a Federal Official's life on the run, to the peaceful surrender...All was of God.
As the Lord has mercy on whom He will, and hardens whom He will...it took a miracle from the Lord to soften this man's heart to surrender, without any incident. One false move from him and he would have been dead...a multitude of guns were trained on him for just such an occasion.
The Lord planned everything that happened in this event, as He has EVERY other thing under the sun since the beginning. It was all of God's Intention that this scenario happened the way it did including the GA Police and FBI STOPPING this offender from creating any more havoc.
Hope this helps,
Marques
Mod edit: I split this conversation off as there were several going on in the original thread.
Ricky:
Hi Marques, the Lord planned everything that happened in this event in Atlanta, to me that would mean that He did this before He created life for us? any miracles that happen today that ARE done by the Lord were already done by Him, BEFORE, HE does not do them today they ARE already done, is this correct? I have some trouble with this event in Atlanta being consider a miracle by the Lord, it appears that the police were just doing their job talking this man out of it. When the Lord fed thousands of people with a couple of fish, that is a miracle to me. Thanks for all your help Marques.
Bless you all. Ricky
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