> General Discussions
Repentance
Roy Coates:
--- Quote from: Yab Yum on March 25, 2010, 04:41:04 PM ---Hi all.
A little unclear on Ray's view of repentance and free will. If i need to repent but there is no free will, what am I repenting of?
If God "set up" the Fall to inevitably occur, then that would be like me saying that I am repenting of watching the first 10 minutes of a movie.
Does this make sense?
--- End quote ---
You need to repent of who and what you are, carnal. Another Rays studies on repentance&guilty of all
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html (transcript-both)
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Ray_Repent%201.mp3 (audio repentance)
this one answers "what am I repenting of"
http://bible-truths.com/audio/N05%20Guilty_of_ALL.mp3 (audio guilty of all)
Yab Yum:
Thanks all.
If i was compelled to sin in teh first place why does God case us to "repent" instead of, say, "become realized"?
I'm still unclear but I'll try to understand.
Kat:
Hi Yab Yum,
The thing is we all need this experience of life, both good and bad, to LEARN from it. The physical experience must come first, this "experience of evil."
1Co 15:46 But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.
Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it. (CLV)
In this learning process that all humans must go through the end results will be that God will bring all of us into His image, "then the spiritual," the few now the many later. Here is an email that explains this more.
http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm -------
If God would save everyone, because that's His will, then what's the point of all this. I mean with what I have read I get the impression we are just here for ... I don't know ?
Why would God, who needs nothing and is self sufficient, create us, the human race, who He knows are going to do the things we do, then save us all for eternity? Why wouldn't He just make us for what He purposed in the end. I don't know if this makes sense?
Charles
[Ray Replies]
Dear Charles:
Of course your question makes sense--it is an excellent question. Too bad that the Christian Church does not answer it.
God is SPIRIT. God is interested ONLY in spiritual things. All this physical creation is not something that God takes great pleasure in--it is but a means to an end. Well, what does He want then? He wants CHILDREN! SPIRITUAL Sons and Daughters in HIS VERY IMAGE!
But, how does He get them? Create them? Yes, CREATE them. But how does He create them. Instantly? No. To be in the IMAGE of God means that we will have the very same CHARACTER AND LOVE of God. Character and Love cannot be created instantly; it can only be developed over a period of time under severe pressure and duress. And so God creates severe pressure and duress, which produces GODLY CHARACTER. Imagine creating "patience," INSTANTLY? Why the very thought is self-contradicting. Patience by its very nature means that something must be WAITED FOR even though it is desired NOW.
God knows what He is doing. Now then, there is a second part to all this. We ourselves would never ever really appreciate the qualities of character, virtue, and love, that we will possess if we did not have to "sweat blood" to get them. There is no virtue that you can name that is not the result of overcoming some form of evil. And so this physical, human, temporal existence is as beneficial for US, and it is to GOD.
Hope this helps your understanding a little better.
God be with you,
Ray
Yab Yum:
V interesting.
onelovedread:
I think this email from Ray dealing with why we're here, addresses repentance in an indirect way:
[Ray replies]
I am sorry that I don't know your name, but thank you for you interest and your email.
Christianity does not give you a straight answer because the doctrines of Christianity contradict most of the truths of God's Word.
There are answers, however.
I will give you some of the reason "why we are here."
1) great and wise creator GOD PUT US HERE. He started the human family.
2) God is not stupid, He had a grand and eternal purpose in mind for making mankind.
3) God has many attributes, powers, knowledge, etc., that obviously mankind DOES NOT. But, God DOES WANT us to have those same attributes, especially LOVE!
4) Qualities of character such as Love are not instantaneously created, they must be developed. That development takes a creation, circumstances, and time. And so, God creates all these things necessary for their development.
5) Although God is GOOD, He nonetheless has a knowledge and understanding of both good AND EVIL. And so we TOO much come to an understanding of both good and evil. Why? Because ALL KNOWLEDGE hinges on their proper understanding.
People say things without ever realizing how stupid or impossible their thoughts or statements are. Most Christians suppose that if Adam and Eve had not sinned, then we all would STILL, right now, be enjoying the beautiful life of happiness and bliss in a fabulous garden of Eden. NOT SO!!! Adam and Eve did NOT appreciate what they had with God in the garden before they sinned. They had NO CONTRAST to compare it with.
Now here is a key piece of understanding and wisdom. God wants CHILDREN. God is building a FAMILY. Children are to grow up and have the attributes of their parents. But these things must be LEARNED BY EXPERIENCE! Not only didn't Adam and Eve appreciate what they had, they ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT have appreciated what they had, because they experienced ONLY GOOD.
Try to come up with even ONE VIRTUE, such as love, patience, honesty, goodness, faithfulness, loyalty, obedience, bravery, etc., etc., etc., ANYTHING of a virtuous nature, that does not involve the overcoming of SOME FORM OF EVIL! There is you answer! There IS NO VIRTUE, NO CHARACTER, NO STABILITY of any kind in any one, except he overcomes some form of EVIL.
Now can you see why we are here? Now can you see why there is not only good, but so much evil in the world? It is necessary! God did not put it here simply to make us miserable! God is NOT in a battle for supremacy with Satan. God CREATED Satan. God USES Satan. And Satan too, will be saved after he has done all of his dirty work. God will make him repent.
6) God is enlarging His family into BILLIONS of sons and daughters. This life is part of the training ground to be the very SONS OF GOD.
All evil including DEATH itself will be abolished when God has used them to bring His family to a level of love and righteousness that He desires. We will then inherit all that God has and all that God is. God is truly OUR FATHER.
I hope that helps your understanding a little better. Life will not always be miserable and painful as it may seem to you now. This too shall pass.
Sincerely,
Ray
I hope it helps in some way.
Onelovedread
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