bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Forum related how to's?  Post your questions to the membership.


.

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Need help with 2 Cor verse 8  (Read 1945 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

longhorn

  • Guest
Need help with 2 Cor verse 8
« on: March 26, 2010, 01:00:36 PM »

I seem to have suffered a brain fart.  Can someone direct me to where Ray talks about the mis-translation of this verse.

Love in Christ

Longhorn
Logged

Ninny

  • Guest
Re: Need help with 2 Cor verse 8
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2010, 01:06:16 PM »

Longhorn, what chapter?
Logged

mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Need help with 2 Cor verse 8
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2010, 01:16:36 PM »

2 Corinthians Chapter 5, right?

2 Cor 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3202.msg23890.html#msg23890):

Dear Bob:
    I get this same question every few days, year after year. First, there is NO such Scripture as is referenced in your email, and that is quoted a million times a day by Christian worldwide:  "To be absent from the body   IS   to be present with the lord."  Read it yourself. Here is what it says:
     
    "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body   AND TO BE   present with the Lord."
     
    The words "AND to be" puts this presence with the Lord at a time INTO THE FUTURE after Paul's death at a time of resurrection. Paul did not LIE when he taught us that He, like all saints, would be resurrected from the DEAD, not at his death, but AT THE LAST TRUMP (I Cor. 15:52).
     
    God be with you,
    Ray



Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3138.msg23389.html#msg23389):

Dear Norm:

    I get asked that question continually. People think there is a verse in the Bible that says: "To be absent from the body   IS   to be present with the Lord." There is no such verse. It says, "To be absent from the body   AND TO BE  [future tense] present with the Lord" (II Cor. 5:08). NO ONE meets the Lord before the "Last Trump" as Paul himself declared in I Cor. 15:52.

    God be with you,

    Ray



Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5470.msg43654.html#msg43654):

Dear Bertram:  No, it DOESN'T say that "...the INSTANT we are way from our bodies we are present with the Lord."  Where do you see that word "instant" in Scripture. Paul wrote these verses. Did Paul know when he personally would be "with the Lord?"  Yes, of course he did:  "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye [yes, but WHEN?], AT THE LAST TRUMP, for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we {notice that Paul includes himself, that he will be DEAD, and 'the DEAD shall be raised.' One of those 'dead' will be Paul himself]...." (I Cor. 15:52).  So did Paul lie, and mean that he would be changed "instantly" as you suggest AT death, rather than FROM the dead, AT THE LAST TRUMP?
    God be with you,
    Ray



Marques
Logged

longhorn

  • Guest
Re: Need help with 2 Cor verse 8
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2010, 01:27:28 PM »

My bad, Chapter 5  " Well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord " NKJV  and " We would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord " English Standard Version.  Somewhere Ray talks about how this verse should properly be translated, but like I said, having a bad brain day.

Longhorn
Logged

longhorn

  • Guest
Re: Need help with 2 Cor verse 8
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2010, 01:30:16 PM »

Thanks mharrell08.

Longhorn
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Need help with 2 Cor verse 8
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2010, 01:51:53 PM »


Hi Longhorn,

Here is another email on this.

http://bible-truths.com/email16.htm ---------

[Ray Replies]

Dear Doug:

Of the millions of times a year that this Scripture in II Cor. 5:8 is quoted, probably only about twice is it ever quoted properly. And THAT is partly the reason why most do not understand this verse.

Paul never said: "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." There is NO SUCH SCRIPTURE.

Let's quote it properly:

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather TO BE absent from the body, and TO BE present with the Lord."

Or as Concordant Literal New Testament renders it:

"...rather to be away from home out of the body and to be at home with the Lord."

There is a giant difference between the two words "is" and "and." Just the fact of being "absent or separated" from our bodies, does not automatically equate with being instantaneously "WITH" the Lord.

First we DIE and thereby become absent from or separated from our bodies--they decay back into the dust of the ground. But some time AFTER our death we are taken home to be with the Lord. Notice how Paul himself understood this. Are we "at home with the Lord" at the instant of DEATH? No. I Thes. 4:16-17--

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be [at home] with the Lord."

Notice that all the DEAD in Christ rise at the SAME TIME, at His presence in the air. But, not all of the DEAD in Christ DIED AT THE SAME TIME.  Hence they were NOT 'at home with the Lord' at the very time of their death.

Hope that helps your understanding a little better.

Ray

Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.139 seconds with 24 queries.