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Author Topic: A Sincere Question  (Read 4198 times)

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  • Guest
A Sincere Question
« on: March 27, 2010, 10:36:20 AM »,11604.0.html

Does Satan represent our carnal mind?

Dear Mark:  Was it "the carnal mind" that presented itself to God in the opening chapters of Job?  Did Jesus tells HIS OWN "CARNAL MIND" to "get behind Me, SATAN?" (Luke 4:8 )?  Did Jesus have a "carnal mind?" A "satan" within Him?  Is God going to chain the "carnal mind" in the abyss for a thousand years (Rev. 20:1-2)?  Is He then going to release  the "carnal mind" for a little season?

        I await your reply.

        God be with you,


I don’t understand why Ray asks this question. Ray so perfectly, IMO, teaches in
[D] "If I have told you EARTHLY things [first], and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of HEAVENLY [spiritual] things [afterward]?" (John 3:12).

Everything from Genesis to Revelation pertains to a higher SPIRITUAL meaning than the physical examples, parables, metaphors, allegories, stories and symbols in which they are written. "Let us make man in Our Image" (Gen. 1:26) are words of SPIRIT: "…Surely I come quickly…" (Rev. 22:20) are words of SPIRIT. God does not look like a six-foot man or a five-foot woman. Jesus comes quickly to us, not to the world.

And so on.

In Job here where it states that Satan presented ‘himself’ to God, couldn’t that be exactly what Ray teaches, a higher spiritual meaning, a spiritual reality couched in a physical setting.

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. {Satan: Heb. the adversary} {among: Heb. in the midst of}  7  And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.  8  And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? {considered: Heb. set thy heart on}  9  Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?  10  Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? Job1.6-10

Did the Lord and Satan really talk using human words with a human voice in some physical far away place? Does Scripture here literally mean Satan was physically walking to and fro in the earth?

(Notice it says IN the earth?) People are made from the dust of the earth. The carnal mind is in the earth (people).

Anyway was Job perfect in the natural sense? Jesus was the only perfect ‘man’. Was Satan talking about a literal physical hedge?

I am not at all being disrespectful to Ray. I am asking an honest question here so I can understand the whole of Ray’s writings. Please know I am sincere here.

Ray asks if it was the carnal mind that presented itself to God.

If Ray is seeing the carnal mind as a physical entity and using Ray’s own interpretation techniques I would say no. This whole encounter is a spiritual one. It is metaphoric as Ray teaches Scripture often is. A metaphor is a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them .

The carnal mind is not a physical reality yet it is an ‘enemy’ of God.

The  carnal  mind [is]  enmity  against God Romans 8.7

God is invisible.

Now unto the King eternal, immortal,  invisible , the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1Tim1.17 and also see Heb 11.26

The carnal mind is an invisible essence. Satan is a spirit.

The beginning of Job that we are talking about here is an exchange between 2 spiritual essences. In this sense I would say an emphatic “Yes” to Rays question, which is “Dear Mark:  Was it "the carnal mind" that presented itself to God in the opening chapters of Job?” 

The carnal mind is often presented to God when ‘carnal’ people try to ‘present’ themselves before God who is Spirit.  And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ. 1Cor 3.1

I will leave it here and, again, please know this is a question from my heart not meant to undermine anything except confusion. Ray is a man and from what I have read from his own hand, is a man who likes a sincere question put forth to him.


PS: I did not reply to Rays other questions but left them in the context. The principal is the same regarding these questions also and I have already and will again respond to them if Ray or anyone else is interested.

Thanks again.




  • Guest
Re: A Sincere Question
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2010, 10:44:45 AM »

This is EXACTLY why we created the FAQs section. As the header states:

A FAQ of Questions and Past Troublespots to Steer Clear Of

Why don't you simply email Ray? No one here is more qualified to answer Ray's teachings than Ray himself.


Late Edit: Questions can be asked, but this is the 3rd time you've attempted to teach this point in contrary to Ray's teachings. That's why it was locked as quickly as it was.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 10:46:22 AM by mharrell08 »
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