Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[musicman]

Lupac, your friend's understanding does nothing to give Pharoh some phantom free will.  Even if the idea of Israel's God hardens his heart, what force caused him repulsion of God?  I am rupulsed by some idiot's loud rap music.  If it were up to me, I wouldn't be bothered by it at all.  But something causes my utter hatred of it.  If Pharoh didn't like the idea of Israel's God, it's because God didn't want him to.  I don't understand the problem with accepting that we don't have free will.  It's not taught in the scriptures and is impossible to have in the first place.  Everything has a cause.  Besides, it doesn't say what your friend is implying.  Boy, talk about twisting the scriptures.

[Hiratnz]

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:  We just have to get away from this saying that we can and we cant maybe this maybe that syndrome this is God Analogy believe the scriptures and  know this  "CAUSE AND EFFECT"—THE FIRST EDICT OF THE UNIVERSE   

[daywalker]

George,

That's why I said "Scriptures", not "bibles"... 

You have TWO choices:

A. You believe what the Scriptures say.

-or-

B. You don't believe what the Scriptures say, and be like your friend who adds/takes away words from the Scriptures to fit his man-made doctrines.

Yes.. It IS that simple!

Just a point of information, The Bible/s are not the inspired word of God, they are all bollixed up by man's traditions and doctrines being substituted many places in every translation. If any open eyed person is expected to take the Bible/s as written for the inspired word, we have a problem Houston.

Now if we are talking Scripture (Inspired Word Of God) that is a whole different story, but that is why we study, question ,search, Pray, prove and test every single word any man utters or writes.

Mat 9:16-17 (MKJV)
16  No one puts a piece of new cloth onto an old garment; for that which is put in to fill it up takes from the garment, and the tear is made worse.
17  Nor do men put new wine into old wineskins; else the wineskins burst, and the wine runs out, and the wineskins perish. But they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved together.

The chapter below is now starting to make a lot more sense, if new wine is poured into the old containers, it is way too strong and will get all those using the old containers for their new wine drunk (confused?).

Isa 28:1-29 (BBE)
1  Ho! crown of pride of those who are given up to wine in Ephraim, and the dead flower of his glory which is on the head of those who are overcome by strong drink!
2  See, the Lord has a strong and cruel one; like a rain of ice, a storm of destruction, like the overflowing of a strong river, he will violently overcome them.

3  The crown of pride of those who are given up to wine in Ephraim will be crushed under foot;
4  And the dead flower of his glory, which is on the head of the fertile valley, will be like the first early fruit before the summer; which a man takes and puts in his mouth the minute he sees it.

5  In that day will the Lord of armies be a crown of glory, and a fair ornament, to the rest of his people;
6  And a spirit of wisdom to the judge, and strength to those who keep back the attackers at the door of the town.

7  And further, these are uncertain through wine, and have gone out of the right way through strong drink: the priest and the prophet are uncertain through strong drink, they are overcome by wine, they have gone out of the way through strong drink; their vision is false, they go wrong in their decisions.
8  For all the tables are covered with coughed-up food, so that there is not a clean place.

9  To whom will he give knowledge? and to whom will he make clear the word? Will it be to those who have newly given up milk, and who have only now been taken from the breast?
10  For it is one rule after another; one line after another; here a little, there a little.

11  No, but with broken talk, and with a strange tongue, he will give his word to this people:
12  To whom he said, This is the rest, give rest to him who is tired; and by this you may get new strength; but they would not give ear.

13  For this cause the word of the Lord will be to them rule after rule, line after line, here a little, there a little; so that they may go on their way, and falling back may be broken, and taken in the net.

14  Give ear then to the word of the Lord, you men of pride, the rulers of this people in Jerusalem:
15  Because you have said, We have made death our friend, and with the underworld we have made an agreement; when the overflowing waters come through they will not come near us; for we are looking to false words for help, taking cover in what is untrue:

16  For this cause says the Lord God, See, I am placing in Zion as a base, a stone, a tested stone, an angle-stone which is certain and of great value: and he who has faith will not give way.
17  And I will make right decision the measuring-line, and righteousness the weight: and the ice-storm will take away the safe place of false words, and the secret place will be covered by the flowing waters.

18  And the help you were looking for from death will come to nothing, and your agreement with the underworld will be broken; when the overflowing waters come through, then you will be overcome by them.
19  Whenever they come through they will overtake you; for they will come through morning after morning, by day and by night: and the news will be nothing but fear.
20  For the bed is not long enough for a man to be stretched out on: and the cover is not wide enough for him to be covered with.

21  For the Lord will come up as on Mount Perazim, he will be moved to wrath as in the valley of Gibeon; so that he may do his work--strange is his work; and give effect to his act--unnatural is his act.

22  And now, take care that you do not make sport of him, or your bands will be made strong; for I have had word from the Lord, the Lord of armies, of an end, of a complete end, which is to come on all the land.
23  Let your ears be open to my voice; give attention to what I say.

24  Is the ploughman for ever ploughing? does he not get the earth ready and broken up for the seed?
25  When the face of the earth has been levelled, does he not put in the different sorts of seed, and the grain in lines, and the barley in its place, and the spelt at the edge?
26  For his God is his teacher, giving him the knowledge of these things.

27  For the fitches are not crushed with a sharp instrument, and a cart-wheel is not rolled over the cummin; but the grain of the fitches is hammered out with a stick, and of the cummin with a rod.
28  Is the grain for bread crushed? He does not go on crushing it for ever, but he lets his cart-wheels and his horses go over it without crushing it.
29  This comes from the Lord of armies, purposing wonders, and wise in all his acts.

(GNB)Isa 28:29  All this wisdom comes from the LORD Almighty. The plans God makes are wise, and they always succeed.

george .

 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Hiratnz

Yes,    we do have to change our worldly language that conditions us to say WE CAN/WE CAN’t and also DO/DON”T terminology to pay reverence to the fact we can do nothing without the Spirit of Christ. We can do NOTHING. God is the author and the finisher of our Faith.

Learning the Kingdom of God language is important! It helps in the application of the Truth in our daily lives and interactions with others.

Welcome to the Forum and thanks for the post.

Arc

[HoneyLamb56]

  It was this topic that helped me leave a bible study group and eventually the church; during a discussion when I had brought up the fact that Pharaoh's heart was hardened by God, they looked at me like my head was on backwards, stammered in speech then went onto another discussion.  I thank the forum group for reaffirming my beliefs.

[claypot]

I like what Ray said about Jesus' ability to obey or not. He said Jesus couldn't disobey because God wouldn't let Him. Now apply this to Pharoah and you might have your answer to 'Could Pharoah have done any different?'

cp

[lauriellen]

claypot, that is the P-E-R-F-E-C-T analogy....nailed down and book-ended with absolutely NO wiggle room there! 

[claypot]

You mean I done good.

cp

[Deborah-Leigh]

Excellent cp!  

It helps everyone when Ray's papers have been integrated to become one's own. It looks like that is what you have been blessed to have recieved regarding this topic that encourages us all.

Adding the web address where others can go and see the specific reference, is an additional plus and benifits even us more veteran members to keep off the dust!

Arc

[claypot]

Excellent cp! 

It helps everyone when Ray's papers have been integrated to become one's own. It looks like that is what you have been blessed to have recieved regarding this topic that encourages us all.

Adding the web address where others can go and see the specific reference, is an additional plus and benifits even us more veteran members to keep off the dust!

Arc

Very good advice and the links you all supply are indeed very helpful. As I get more accustomed to where to find things (which I know is not very hard to do for it is an extremely well laid out site) but as I get more comfortable with things I will seek and paste more. Thanks again.

cp

[Cypress]

Hi Lupac,

Yes there is proof.

Exo 10:20  But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart...

Exo 10:27  But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart...

Exo 11:10  ...and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart..

There it is, plainly stated in the Scripture. Either you believe what the Scripture says, are you don't.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

I agree. It says it plain and simple.

Exodus 10:1 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go in to Pharaoh; for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may show these signs of mine among them,