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[Lupac]

But may not be the one you expect. Ray has stated that sin is any mistake you make, if you mean to or not. So here's my question, Jesus fell down while carrying the cross to be crucified. According to what Ray said sin is, wouldn't that mean Jesus sinned because He fell down due to being weak from being tortured? I'm sorry if this is a shocking question, I'm just trying to understand. Thanks.

[Ninny]

Well, Bryant, the answer to that would be NO! Jesus was without sin, remember?
Sin is a missing of the mark..Jesus never missed the mark! If he hadn't fallen under the weight of the cross he would not have been human, which He was! If He hadn't been human, he couldn't have identified with us...If He hadn't been God, which He IS!  He couldn't have saved us!! So NO, Jesus didn't sin by falling under the weight of the cross....that may not be the smartest answer you'll get, but it's mine!!
Kathy

[Kat]

Hi Lupac,

http://bible-truths.com/email5.htm ---
Sin is a mistake (large or small), lawlessness, or falling short of the Glory of God.
--------------------------------------

I think sin is 'a' mistake, but not all mistakes are sin. When we take a test and do not know the answer, it will be counted off for the mistake, but it is not a sin to miss a question on a test. Hope that helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Lupac]

NO! Of course I wasn't saying Jesus sinned! Kat, thanks for your answer. What got me wondering is, I think Ray said if your trying to shoot an arrow into a bull's eye, and you miss, it's a sin because you "missed the mark". I don't believe that, but I think Ray said it. Anyone? But your answer helped.

[Dave in Tenn]

Lupac, find the quote and bring it here if you still need to.  We can try to explain what Ray said.  We can try to correct your misunderstanding of the subject.  But you are asking us to explain or defend something that Ray did NOT say.  How is a human supposed to do that?   


 

[Kat]

The definition of sin is not to rape little children and cut off their heads, that is not the definition of sin.  That is only one ‘form’ of sin.  

Sin means to miss the mark.  So very technically, if you are having target practice at a target and you miss the bulls eye, because that’s what you were trying to hit, you sinned.  You missed the mark.  You didn’t do what you wanted to do, you missed.  So any failure, any mistake is a sin.  Now it doesn’t have to be a big sin.  We all make mistakes, you know.  

If we are peeling an apple and we cut ourselves, that is a sin.  Now God is not going to strike you down with lightning out of heaven for that.  But it is a sin and you have to suffer the consequences. Sometimes you sin and you don’t suffer a consequence, because you don’t know you sinned.  It takes years sometimes to learn that you have sins you didn’t know about.  

So although they would deny everything that I have said there, but if you nail them down on their doctrines they absolutely believe that God repents of His failures and His shortcomings, which are sins.  Failures and shortcomings are sins.  

They say, ‘well God doesn’t sin.’  But does He do things that don’t work out the way He wanted them to?  They say, ‘yes.’  Well that’s a sin!  It’s plain as that.  You can play with words and games if you want to, but this is not that difficult.  What we are studying today might be difficult, but some of the explanations I hope are not difficult.

Okay I think this is what you were referring to Lupac.

I can only say that as for the example you gave of Jesus stumbling when He was carrying the cross is that it was suppose to happen. Surely there is a reason for every single thing that He did whether we know what it is or not.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Jesus fell seven times.


Pro 24:16  For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Arc

[Lupac]

The definition of sin is not to rape little children and cut off their heads, that is not the definition of sin.  That is only one ‘form’ of sin.  

Sin means to miss the mark.  So very technically, if you are having target practice at a target and you miss the bulls eye, because that’s what you were trying to hit, you sinned.  You missed the mark.  You didn’t do what you wanted to do, you missed.  So any failure, any mistake is a sin.  Now it doesn’t have to be a big sin.  We all make mistakes, you know.  

If we are peeling an apple and we cut ourselves, that is a sin.  Now God is not going to strike you down with lightning out of heaven for that.  But it is a sin and you have to suffer the consequences. Sometimes you sin and you don’t suffer a consequence, because you don’t know you sinned.  It takes years sometimes to learn that you have sins you didn’t know about.  

So although they would deny everything that I have said there, but if you nail them down on their doctrines they absolutely believe that God repents of His failures and His shortcomings, which are sins.  Failures and shortcomings are sins.  

They say, ‘well God doesn’t sin.’  But does He do things that don’t work out the way He wanted them to?  They say, ‘yes.’  Well that’s a sin!  It’s plain as that.  You can play with words and games if you want to, but this is not that difficult.  What we are studying today might be difficult, but some of the explanations I hope are not difficult.

Okay I think this is what you were referring to Lupac.

I can only say that as for the example you gave of Jesus stumbling when He was carrying the cross is that it was suppose to happen. Surely there is a reason for every single thing that He did whether we know what it is or not.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

That's it! That's the quote. Even if that was supposed to happen, He still fell. I'm sorry, but I can't believe a simple mistake is a sin.

[longhorn]

I love it when Arc replies.  You just know it's going to be the real " Meat of the word "  with some good old country gravy on the side.

Love in Christ

Longhorn

[Kat]

Lupac, I do not want to try to explain this one, as I didn't do so well the first time I tried. 
I would suggest that you email Ray L.RaySmith@comcast.net

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Lupac]

You know, I just read the four gospel accounts, and I don't even think Jesus falling while carrying the cross is in the Bible. It just implied that He could not bear it, and so they got Simon to carry it. (Although in John it says Jesus carried it.  )

[Kat]

Now you got me wondering what the Scriptures say on this.

Matt 27:31  And after they had mocked Him, they took the robe off of Him and put His own clothing on Him and led Him away to crucify Him.
v. 32  And going out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name. They forced this one to carry His cross.

Mark 15:20  And when they had mocked Him, they took the purple off Him and put His own clothes on Him and led Him out to crucify Him.
v. 21  And they made one who was passing by, Simon a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear His cross.

Luke 23:26  And as they led Him away, they laid hold on one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country. And they laid the cross on him, that he might carry it after Jesus.

John 19:17  And bearing His cross, He went out to a place called, The Place of a Skull (which is called in the Hebrew, Golgotha)

So the Scriptures do not even say that Jesus fall or anything. Interesting I had not even looked at this closely before.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Lupac]

Yeah, it's so common in movies and in popular culture depicting that Jesus was struggling and falling with the cross. From the three gospels, it would seem that someone saw Him, and got Simon to carry Jesus' cross for Him, so that Jesus never carried it. But in John is says Jesus carried His own cross. I know that different information isn't a contradiction, but what do you think? (I'll post my thoughts a little later.)

[Ninny]

Very enlightening! Definitely.
Whether He had actually fallen or not isn't important... He still never sinned or missed the mark.
He suffered a tremendous amount of pain as any man would have...and still he never sinned....
Kathy

[Dave in Tenn]

Well aren't we all a little humiliated.  LOL.  I don't think this has happened quite so publicly since the 'immaculate conception' thread.  Read ALL the words indeed.   

[Ninny]

I second that, Dave!    Read ALL the words! never too late to learn that!   Shutting up now....
Kathy

[Deborah-Leigh]

Insert Quote
I love it when Arc replies.  You just know it's going to be the real " Meat of the word "  with some good old country gravy on the side.

Sorry Longhorn

The meat was the Scripture I posted. The gravey was mud....appologies.

The Seven falls of Jesus as He carried His Cross is a false teaching out of Catholicism.  A residual piece of rubbish from my Catholic up-bringing that is cleansed off me through this thread.   

Arc

[Akira329]

I'll be the first to respond in that those who wanted to reply to this thread, I'm now humiliated.
None of the gospels even hint at such a stumble so why even assume it???
I feel ashamed of myself.......

[Lupac]

You don't have to be embarrassed, we all learned something new. I'm guessing they got Simon to carry His cross some of the way, but then made Jesus carry it up to the place He was crucified?

[Dave in Tenn]

It does serve as a very public reminder of why we are here.  We're not here to entertain every piece of fluff that blows in on the breeze out of Babylon, but to affirm and hold to bible truths.  "Let me be not ashamed" by doing that.