> General Discussions
Something on aionios.
Lupac:
<sigh>.... Not this again.
Read here:
http://bible-truths.com/email12.htm#angels
and maybe here too:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2831.0.html
EDIT: Sorry, I see you're new around here. Those links should help you.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: markissluv on April 01, 2010, 12:02:18 PM ---Wasn't the fact that the "sons of God" who came and saw the daughters of men"... one of the big reasons why God sent the flood? or no?
--- End quote ---
No, Moses wrote the reason in the following verses:
Gen 6:5-6 God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth
Also, here is more information from Ray's 2008 Conference, which goes through scientific evidence and scriptures that show the flood was local: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8385.msg79675.html#msg79675
Hope this helps,
Marques
Lupac:
Okay, one more question. I have often used Lam. 3:31 for proof to myself, that God will bring all men to Him. Here's the scripture:
--- Quote ---Lam 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off for ever:
--- End quote ---
The problem is, the word translated "ever" is olam. What is that supposed to mean? "The Lord will not cast off for an age?" YLT says
--- Quote ---"For the Lord doth not cast off to the age."
--- End quote ---
So one is saying God will not cast off forever, the other is saying God does not cast off for the age. What does this mean? Thanks again.
Roy Coates:
I couldn't find anything on the specific verse Lam 3:31 but here is more information on olam, hope this helps.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?action=post;topic=11639.0;num_replies=7
Look I have read the FAQ on your website, but i would like to know, besides the strongs conc. i have.... how do i look up the original meanings in greek or hebrew. are there more or different concordances?.... I heard you speak about the Lexicon but i'm not familiar with it. The thing that brought this about was when you said that the word everlasting carried a different meaning that what we think. I'd like to study that.
Dear Justin:AND LUPAC(mine)
You cannot learn the true meaning of such words as "ad, olam, aion, aionios," etc. by reading a commentary or lexicon, or concordance like Strong's. Dr. Strong defines "aion" as = "age" AND "eternity."
When the Christians (who have doctrines to defend) write dictionaries and commentaries, they often lie concerning the meaning of words that go against their false teachings. It takes a real teacher to point out these gross errors.
That's like defining "minute" as "hour" AND "century." It's nonsense. If all one had to do to learn the truth of these words was to look them up in a dictionary, I wouldn't need to even have a web site. You need to read and study (for a couple of hundred hours, at least) my paper: "Is EVERLASTING Scriptural?" http://bible-truths.com/aeonion.htm You have to see how these words are USED, and have been USED, in Scripture, histories, etc. I do not, for example, teach the truth concerning the damnable Christian doctrine of hell, by simply consulting Strong's dictionaries or any other dictionaries. Dictionaries can be a starting point, but it involves a whole lot more than that.
God be with you,
Ray
http://bible-truths.com/email15.htm
Hi Ray!
I've been looking at these words 'aion' and 'aionan'--I've read your paper to John Hagee as well as read some other similar studies on the tentmaker site.
I came across an interesting paper with a slightly different take on these words. I think you may be interested to read this writing.
http://www.(see ray's email for the link I wont post here****org.uk
God bless!
Mike
[Ray Replies]
Dear Mike:
Thank you for the link on the "aions."
I have come to see over the years, that there are often well-meaning scholars who seem to be 100% accurate in their scholarship, when in reality, they have major flaws.
This researcher makes numerous assertions that he says are absolutely certain, that are not as he says.
Here are a couple, as I didn't read the whole paper, and don't have time to critique it in its entirety:
He states that Hebrew "olams" NEVER, EVER mean "age." That statement is NOT Scripturally true. Numbers 25:13 speaks of the priesthood of Aaron, and we read this: "And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an EVERLASTING [Heb. 'olam'] priesthood...." We now know for a Scriptural FACT that this priesthood was NOT "everlasting," but rather lasted for an "age"--a long period of time having a beginning and an ending. We see in the book of Hebrews that this very priesthood NO LONGER EXISTS! The temple is gone and the tribe of Levi is gone. And so, it was an "age-abiding" or "eonian" priesthood, not an "everlasting" one.
He states that Hebrew "olams" are always periods that CANNOT BE SEEN OR KNOWN. This likewise, is an UNscriptural statement. Often a man's lifetime is called an "olam," and when a person is born and when he dies is NOT an unknowable period of time. Likewise the three days of Jonah's trial was is absolutely KNOWABLE.
One more: to suggest that the context can determine whether an "olam" is a short period of time or an longer period of time, or ETERNITY, can be deduced from the context. Hence when speaking of God, olams ALWAYS MEAN ETERNAL OR EVERLASTING. That's just not true. NOwhere will you find a statement in either the Old Testament or the New Testament where olam or aion is used with reference to God and then inserts a restrictive word such as "only." When stating that God is an "eonian God," it never adds the word "only." As though God lives for the eons, ONLY! That is all unscriptural human reasoning. Statements of FACT are never statements of RESTRICTION unless there are restrictive words present!! That God is "the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" by no means suggests that He is the God of these three men ONLY!!
Okay, one more: this author states that Heb. 1:2, "...makes the eons [ages]...." has to be translated world even though he concedes that God did "make the aions or ages." And his proof for this assertion? He has not proof. He just makes the statement that this is speaking of a material creation and ages aren't material. God also "breathed" into Adam (breath is not material). The finished product of man was "a living soul." The soul of man is not material. Let's go back further: "Let there be LIGHT." Is light made out of material? Besides, how could Jesus have "made the worldS." How many "worlds" are there? There is but ONE WORLD. It should be translated "ages" as even my King James says in the margin.
Thanks a gain, and God be with you,
Ray
Maybe I'll take another look at his paper another time.
Kat:
Hi Lupac,
NKJV
Lam 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off forever.
Rotherham
Lam 3:31 Surely My Lord, will not cast off, unto times age-abiding;
When you see what this passage is speaking of it will make what is said in this verse easier to understand.
Jeremiah is speaking of the terrible sufferings in this life, but he goes on to acknowledge God’s justice. I think what he's referring to in verse 31 is God's justice, "For the Lord will not cast off (reject) forever (always - perpetually)," or the evil and suffering of this age will come to an end. This verse in Psalms says much the same thing.
Look at another verse to see how 'forever' is used there.
NKJV
Jer 3:5 Will He remain angry forever? Will He keep it to the end?'
Rotherham
Jer 3:5 Will He maintain His anger to times age-abiding? Will he keep it perpetually?
This present evil age will not last forever, it will come to an end.
NKJV
Psa 94:14 For the LORD will not cast off His people, Nor will He forsake His inheritance.
v. 15 But judgment will return to righteousness, And all the upright in heart will follow it.
Hope that helps.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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