Do we need to observe physical rituals (baptism, communion-Lord's supper, circumcision)?http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.msg50888.html#msg50888 --
HOW THE CHURCH PLAYS ‘RELIGION’
When I was in the Worldwide Church of God every year we celebrated Passover and we partook of ‘real’ unleavened bread and ‘real’ wine… not leavened bread and grape juice.
Then we also, to out do all the other churches, we would line up all the chairs around the parameter of the hall. Then we had plastic wash basins and warm water and a towel for every person. Then one person would wash the person sitting down feet and they would dry off, get up and put their shoes on. Then the one that had washed their’s would sit down and they would wash their feet. And they would dry off and put their shoes back on. We did this once a year.
Why did we do that? To fulfill the commandments, so that we could feel righteous and holy and better than others. Did people do that everyday of their life? NO. Why? Because they didn’t know what it meant. Well they knew what it meant, but they didn’t think about it everyday. Because well you only do it once a year, so I’ll think about it when it’s time to do it.
That is NOT what Jesus meant when He said we should wash one another’s feet.
That is NOT what Jesus meant by partaking of His body and His blood either. That one day out of the year, we eat a little wafer and drink a little grape juice. That is not what He meant that is NOT keeping Passover or the Lord’s Supper.
Cutting off the foreskin of a man’s penis is NOT circumcision. You say, ‘well it represents carnality and so on.’ Well what do women cut off? Are there no carnal women? What do they cut off and how do they live by this?
I made a list of physical rituals that carnal-minded Christians like to do, according to their faith. Well depending on which religion, but sooner or later everybody does some of this. The physical letter of the law can, in fact, deceive you.
Tithing - pseudo tithing
Religious pilgrimages
Circumcision
Holy Day observance
Clean and unclean foods
Prayer cloths
Foot-washing
Fasting
Alter calls
Water baptism
Making vows
Anointing oil
Burning incense
Doing penance
Speaking in gibberish
Lighting candles
Pictures
Icons
Idols
Holy water
Holy smoke
Confession
Last rights
Sign of the cross
Rosary beads
Wearing phylacteries
The Lord’s Supper
Sabbath keeping
New moons
Prayer wheels
Religious junk
TBN every month if you send them money they will send you a piece of religious trinketry. This month it was a little plastic egg that you can open up the top half of it, like two little doors and there is a little tiny Joseph, Mary and a little baby inside there. Isn’t that cute, that’s precious. Every month they’ve been doing this, for some 30+ years, let’s see 30 x 12 that’s close to 400 now. Can you imagine that somebody has 400 pieces of such religious junk. Where do they put it all? If you gave me 400 such pieces of trinketry junk, I mean it will cover the whole floor and all the tables in here. It’s total nonsense.
Why do they do that? Why do they offer you a piece of junk if you send them $50 or $100 or $1000? Why do they do that? Because people like religious junk. It makes them feel godly, religious, holy or something, you see.
It’s physical, it’s tangible like;
Physical circumcision
Physical baptism
Physical communion
Physical fasting
Physical food and drink laws
Pseudo tithing
Physical prayer
Physical church and worship services
Physical Sabbath keeping
Like ALL physical rituals, it’s a shadow of better things…
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of the good things to come,
They represent something better. They are almost there to deceive those that are stubborn and will not obey God. They point to something grand, to those who do understand.
So then are all these things done away? Should we cut them out of the Bible and throw them away, as though they were useless? NO. No because they serve a purpose.
But here’s the thing, we just read where the things of the law are the shadow of better things to come. Not the actual image itself. So we are to come out of the shadow! When you come out of the shadow you will automatically come into the light. Because if there were no light, there would be no shadow. I mean you don’t come out of a shadow at midnight, because there is no light to cast a shadow. When you come out of the shadow, you come into the light.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7047.0.html --------------------
2Cor. 1:22 Who also seals us and is giving the earnest of the spirit in our hearts.
He “is giving.” Now if He gave it and we have it and it’s a done deal, He doesn’t have to still be giving? You talk about things that people have no concept of what it’s all about. I’m not saying that to puff me up, like I understand and they don’t. I’m just saying that these things are so simple and they are so familiar with them and yet they really don’t know what they mean.
Like for example, all the churches have communion. Some like the Worldwide Church of God had it once a year, because it really came on the Passover and the Passover comes once a year, not every month, not every morning, but every year. Some have it four times a year and I think back when I was in that little Methodist church, we had it four times a year. Some have it once a month and I don’t know if anybody has it once a week. They either have it once a month or then you go into Catholicism, every day.
But here’s the point, why do you have it every day? They may say, ‘well we were told to remember Him and just do this.’ Well they are missing the whole point.
The bread and the wine, they symbolize something. They don’t symbolize your obedience to take this, so that you will remember that Christ shed His blood for you. That’s not what it’s about. He didn’t say 'look' at the bread 'look' at the wine, this symbolizes My body and this symbolizes My blood and then put it back on the table. No, No, No EAT this bread, EAT IT. How often do we need nourishment? “Give us this day our daily bread.” ( Matt 6:11) And likewise the wine…
1Cor. 11:25 "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it…"
You see? This is something you have to do everyday! You drink of His blood, you eat of His body, this is our spiritual nourishment. Yes this is symbolic. I mean you don’t have to send for Paula White’s junky communion set, that’s unbelievable nonsense. You don’t have to have one in your house and you don’t have to have a little sip of wine and a little bread and all that. You LIVE it. If you live the spirit, you don’t have to keep practicing the ritual.
It’s like every time you come over here I wash all of your feet and you would say, ‘why do you wash our feet every time?’ I’d say, oh Christ said we should wash one another’s feet No, I prepare a Bible study. Some times I take 10-20 hours, some times I spend weeks on a Bible study, that’s washing your feet. That’s how I wash your feet, you serve. That’s the whole idea behind that. Christ says, “The servant is not greater than his lord.” (John 13:16)
John 13:14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
So in the Worldwide Church of God every year at Passover we would wash each others feet and forget that we should be serving.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=4472.0 -----------------------
But there is only one body, one spirit. Even as you are called in one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism. There’s only one baptism that counts, that’s Christ’s baptism. Now if your not baptized into Christ, your water baptism is of no value whatsoever But people want to do the physical, keeping the physical. They think well I have to keep the baptism and circumcision, and every year we have to wash one another’s feet, and we take the Passover or communion, sometimes it’s six times a year, sometimes it’s twice a day, whatever.
Paul says they love the letter, their little communion thing and their little wafer (such a cute little thing) and they take their communion cup and say bless you, bless you, bless you and send me money, money, money. You have to have an anointing cloth and the hands laid on you and rubbed with oil... You got to pay your tithe and keep the Holy Days... You can’t wear mixed fabrics... The clean and unclean foods... You have to keep the Sabbath... You can’t work from sunset to sunset... and it just goes on and on and on. You do all these things and you will be a holy person, it will just make your heart so wonderful? But what it does is it makes hypocrites and heretics out of people.
It’s only ONE baptism and that’s JESUS CHRIST. We are baptized into His DEATH. You say I thought we were suppose to be baptized in water? No. We are baptized into His death, that’s the thing that counts. It is only one baptism, there is only one circumcision, you either get that one or you have none at all.
Col 2:10-11 “And you are complete in Him, who is the Head of all principality and power, in whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands…”
No skin, no hands, no knife, that's circumcision, okay. Continuing verse 11 “… putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.”
That is what it represents, “the flesh by the circumcision of CHRIST!” That is the only way it counts.
Col 2:12 “buried with Him in baptism, in whom also you were raised through the faith of the working of God, raising Him from the dead.”
Then you say, 'alright Ray there it is, we have to be baptized, can’t you read it in context?' The circumcision is without hands, the baptism is without water. This is Christ’s circumcision, Christ’s baptism, Christ is the anointing, it’s Christ, Christ, Christ, all of it.
If you don’t see that, you are just spinning your wheels in physical rituals. You don’t get any more obnoxious than holier than thou, seventh day Sabbath keepers and holy sacred name societies. Maybe it’s a secret handshake, it’s like you belong to the Masons and you get a secret handshake and your in, you see. It’s total nonsense.
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm -------------------------------
It is never okay to sin. What did Paul say:
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin [but just HOW do we get 'dead to sin?'] live any longer therein? Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? [THAT'S how we get 'dead to sin']. Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life" (Rom. 6:1-4).
This "newness of life" means "led by the Spirit" of Jesus Christ IN US.
But here's the problem with most Christians. Most Christians have been baptized in WATER, but they have never been "baptized into His DEATH." Therefore they write me weekly telling me how important this physical ritual of water baptism is, because they have never been SPIRITUALLY "baptized into the NAME of Jesus," or "baptized into His DEATH," and therefore know nothing of the spiritual meaning of these physical symbols.
For this reason they also feel it most important to observe the physical ritual of Sabbath keeping, because they have not as yet "entered into His [SPIRITUAL] rest." ("For we which have believed DO ENTER INTO REST..." Heb. 4:3).
For this reason they feel it most important to partake of a little grape juice and a wafer on a regular basis, because they have not as yet SPIRITUALLY "eaten His body or drunk of His blood" (John 6:54).
For this reason they want to "give unto God the things that are CAESAR'S." They want to give God the filthy lucre tax money with Caesar's image on it instead of "unto God the things that [truly] ARE God's." Such as:
"WHAT? Know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own? For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's" (I Cor. 6:19-20).
Therefore, since our bodies belong to God and ARE God's, we are to "...present our bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable UNTO GOD [NOT Caesar's filthy tax money], which is your reasonable [rational, intelligent] service. And be not conformed to this world, but be you transformed by the renewing ['walk in newness of life,' (Rom. 6:4), 'a new creature,' II Cor. 5:17, 'a new creature,' Gal. 6:15] of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable, and perfect will of God" (Rom. 12:1-2).
For this reason they feel it most important to be physically circumcised in the flesh, because they have not as yet been circumcised "in heart and in spirit" (Rom. 28-29).
For this reason they desire physical healing over spiritual healing, etc., etc. Sadly, the Church of Christendom knows little of Christ's "words of spirit."
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=6142.0 -----------------
IN CHRIST - IN SPIRIT
Col 2:10 And you are complete in Christ, who is the Head of all principality and power,
This is talking to the Colossians here, these are Gentiles, these are people who are trying to be the kingdom of the heavens.
Col 2:11 in whom also ye (all of you) are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands (no more physical rituals, talking about the real stuff now, in your heart - in your mind - in your soul - in your spirit), in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ,
People will say, ‘so Ray you are saying that we don’t need to be baptized anymore?’ Oh I never said that. I never said we don’t have to be baptized anymore. We have to be baptized, we have to be circumcised, we have to partake in the foot washing, we have to keep the Sabbath, we have to partake of the bread and the wine… IN SPIRIT.
If you don’t do it in spirit, then forget it. When you go down dry, you’ll come up wet. You will loose some skin and some blood and that’s all. You’ll eat a little piece of wafer and you’ll drink a little grape juice and that’s all. This is the real thing, SPIRITUALLY.
Spiritually you must be circumcised, you must have the foreskin of your heart, that flesh cut off. You must be baptized with Christ, that means you have to die. That’s not too popular, that you have to die to the flesh. The flesh doesn’t want to die. The flesh says, here I am look at me, don’t let me die, pay attention to me, puff me up, make me great, make me important, it’s flesh flesh flesh.
We have to be crucified with Christ.
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
But this next verse is “buried with Him in baptism.”
Col 2:12 buried with Him in baptism…
It doesn’t say buried in water. Where do you see buried in water there? I don’t see buried in water, I see buried with Him in baptism.
Col 2:12 …in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
I don’t see anything about water there. You say, ‘well that’s what it’s all about isn’t it?’ Paul said in the first chapter of Corinthians, Christ has not called me to baptize.
1Cor 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel,
He said that’s not my calling, He called me to preach the gospel. This is the gospel. Being baptized in Christ is the gospel and persecuted with Christ, and hated of all nations.
http://bible-truths.com/email16.htm#supper ------------------------
Dear Ray,
If we are no longer, as Christians to observe the Lord's supper would you please explain (1Cor. 11:23-26) and (Acts 20:7)?
Almon
[Ray Replies]
Dear Almon:
Is it the fact that you find a Scripture stating something in the Word of God that you conclude that we should "do it?"
I have absolutely nothing against anyone who wishes to keep the Lord's supper. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to be circumcised or be baptized. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to sacrifice animals or offer sin offerings, burnt offerings, peace offerings and the like.
Gen. 6:14 commands: "Make THEE an ark of gopher wood...." I have nothing against anyone who wants to follow this command and "Make an ark of gopher wood."
There are hundreds of things commanded in the Scriptures. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to do ALL OF THEM. I don't. I never made an ark of gopher wood, and never intend to.
Any just why don "I" do any of these things? Well, actually I used to do some of them. I used to pay my THREE tithes (oh you didn't know that there were THREE tithes?). I was water baptized. I used to wash my brothers feet, and I used to partake of the Lord's supper once a year. And now I don't. Why not? Because there is absolutely nothing physical that can make one spiritual.
Paul baptized at one time in his ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.
Paul used to circumcise in his early ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.
All physical rituals are CARNAL ordinances, and we are no longer under carnal ordinances. We are now under the "Law of the Spirit of Life." "We know longer know Jesus after the FLESH." Jesus HIMSELF said: "The flesh profits NOTHING." "The words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT and they are LIFE."
Although it was mighty important in Christ's time to worship in THIS mountain or in THAT mountain, Jesus Himself said that the time would come (and so it has) that we no longer worship here or there or in this manner or in that manner, with this set of physical rituals, or with that set of physical rituals, but rather WE WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.
We are to WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH! Now then, does anyone think that we can add to those instructions by adding a few physical, carnal, rituals? I think not.
I hope this helps your understanding a little better.
God be with you,
Ray
