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Author Topic: Resurrection  (Read 2250 times)

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Felix

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Resurrection
« on: April 03, 2010, 03:03:51 PM »

Hi everyone,
I thank God for Rays' teaching on the resurrection. It makes perfect biblical sense that when a person
dies he is dead until the resurrection. Someone must die before they can be brought back to life. For
some reason this gives me peace knowing that the dead know nothing and are waiting for the resurrection
of the dead. But, how is it that a lost person will perish or be destroyed and still be brought back to life?
Felix
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Resurrection
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2010, 03:37:47 PM »

Quote
But, how is it that a lost person will perish or be destroyed and still be brought back to life?

Which is more difficult? To bring a dead person to life or a lost perished destroyed person to life?

Luk 1:37  For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Luk 18:27 The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

Luk 19:10  For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.


Will the Son of God fail to save. Will He fail to find the lost? No! :)


Arc

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mharrell08

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Re: Resurrection
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2010, 04:33:26 PM »

But, how is it that a lost person will perish or be destroyed and still be brought back to life?

Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 4 (http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html):

Being DESTROYED, PERISHED, and LOST are all conditions awaiting SALVATION, and are not conditions to be eternally punished! All, absolutely ALL, who are not in the first resurrection are in a condition likened to: "lost," "perished," or "destroyed." Contrary to orthodoxy these conditions are NOT hopeless:

DESTROYED, PERISHED, AND LOST

DESTROYED: Is being destroyed a condition from which there is no salvation? Jesus said,

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to DESTROY both soul and body in hell [the Greek is "gehenna" NOT hell. It is ‘gehenna fire,’ Mat. 5:22, not ‘hell fire’]" (Matt. 10:28).

Is there no salvation from this "destruction" in gehenna fire? Notice that they are not "eternally lost" in gehenna fire, but they are "DESTROYED" in gehenna fire. Their condition is that of being DESTROYED. This is not a hopeless condition or even our own Lord would have been put into a hopeless condition.

"Jesus answered and said unto them, DESTROY this temple, and in three days I will raise it up ... but He spake of the temple of His BODY" (John 2:19 & 21).

Later they did destroy Jesus Christ and sure enough three days later God SAVED Jesus from that destruction.

Notice what Job said with relation to being "destroyed":

"Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet Thou dost DESTROY me" (Job 10:08).

Yet Job knew that God would yet save him. In Jeremiah 18 God tells Jeremiah to go down to the Potter’s house and observe him at work. Jeremiah sees the potter destroy a marred work in his hand and refashion it into something useful. This we learn is an analogy of how God would "destroy" Judah (Ver. 7), and yet save him in the end. God will refashion all of marred (destroyed) mankind into glorious sons of God!

PERISHED: Can a person perish and still be saved? Of course. Even "righteous" men can perish,

"All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a JUST MAN that PERISHES in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongs his life in his wickedness" (Ecc. 7:15).

One more,

"The RIGHTEOUS PERISHES, and no man lays it to heart..." (Isa. 57:1).

Perishing is not something that can cut off God’s arm of salvation.

LOST: Can a person sin, be lost, die, and then be saved? Certainly. Let’s look at one of those parables of Jesus that Christendom thinks of as easy to understand little stories, when in fact they don’t even begin to understand. You all know the story contained in the parable of the Prodigal son so I won’t read it all, but let me give you the "truth" of this parable.

God is the "Father" in this parable, and the Prodigal is EVERY SON WHO HAS GONE ASTRAY.

"And when he had spent all ... And when he came to himself ... I will arise and go to my father ... I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight ... And am no more worthy to be called thy son ... But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. And bring hither the fatted calf ... For this my son was DEAD, and is alive again; he was LOST, and is found. And they began to be merry" (Luke 15:14-23).

This man SINNED, he was LOST, and he SPIRITUALLY DIED! Do we ALL spiritually DIE? "AND AS IT IS APPOINTED UNTO MEN ONCE TO DIE..." But isn’t this speaking of the PHYSICAL death of our bodies? No it is not. The second part of the verse gives us the answer as to which death this is,

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but AFTER this the JUDGMENT" (Heb. 9:27).

Notice that "judgment" comes after this death, and not before. We already learned that JUDGMENT is upon the house of God NOW! Each individual Christian in every generation is judged NOW, in THIS life, BEFORE he physically dies! And so the "death" that all men must partake of before judgment is SPIRITUAL DEATH. Notice:

"And I saw THE DEAD, small and great, STAND before God" (Rev. 20:12).

How pray tell can the physically dead, stand, if they are dead?

So here then is the order of things. The Prodigal Son SINNED, he was LOST, he spiritually DIED, and then? And then he was JUDGED! Where and when was he judged? In the hog pens of a far alien country, that’s where. God had to bring him out of this alien county (Mystery Babylon the Great) with all its "riotous living" (Luke 15:13). And so it was that God JUDGED this Prodigal with the beasts and swine of Babylon until he "came to himself." (Ver. 17). Seems to me that God sent King Nebuchadnezzer into the fields with the beasts to live like a beast, so that he too "came to himself." God has not warned in vain to

"Come out of her [MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH] my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 17:5 & 18:4).

He that has an ear, let him hear.

And so this Prodigal SINNED, was LOST, and spiritually DIED. Surely he is outside of the realm of salvation now. No, he is in the perfect realm FOR SALVATION. How many millions of times this parable of the Prodigal Son has been read, but how many times has its truth ever been understood and perceived? This prodigal was, according to his father, "DEAD." And it was after his father said that he was "dead" that he welcomed him back, forgave him, exalted him, and rewarded him! Now who says one can’t be saved after death. It is after death that most of humanity will be saved.

May God finally grant you to SEE SOMETHING SPIRITUAL! Parables are NOT literal, that’s why they are called "parables" instead of "history." This parable pictures the carnal mind going the way of the flesh. What are the wages of living a riotous life in the alien land of lustful Babylon? Is it "life and joy in the holy spirit?" I speak as fool. Here is the wages of riotous and carnal living in the hog pens of Babylon: "For the wages of sin is DEATH..." (Rom. 6:23). SPIRITUAL DEATH! What must happen AFTER we spiritually DIE? "JUDGMENT!" The spiritual DEAD must be JUDGED. Does judging CORRECT the spiritually dead sinners? Yes it does. That is what the parable of the Prodigal Son is all about. God’s "ways and means" ALWAYS WORK!

"...For when Thy [God’s] JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!



Hope this helps,

Marques
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margo

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Re: Resurrection
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2010, 06:52:33 PM »

Marques thank you for your reply.  Just this week I had someone ask me, if there is no judgement of the hell fire for the wicked and so on (you now those who don't accept Jesus) what is their judgement if God is Just.  You know we have been told they have to go to hell forever that is their judgement.  At that point I said, I need to pray and seek God, because I just did not want to say the 1st thing that came to my mind.  Today, The Lord spoke to me, All have sinned, Adam, All are saved, Jesus.  Wages of sin is death, Rom 6:23,  death is judgement, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.  The prodigal son parable has helped me to see how we die a spiritual death now.  I hope I am on the right path here.  Blessings, Margo.
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Felix

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Re: Resurrection
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2010, 07:35:32 PM »

Arc
Later I started to think about that question. If God can raise a dead person, He can raise up or restore a
destroyed person. Of course, all things are possible with God. Thank you for your reply.

Marques
Thank you for that excerpt of Ray. Sometimes it's hard to find a particular subject. I thought it was
interesting that judgement (the hog pen) corrected the prodical son.

One more question, if you don't mind. When a person is resurrected, what is resurrected? Since it takes a
body and spirit to make a soul, how is the soul resurrected?

Felix
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Kat

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Re: Resurrection
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2010, 08:06:39 PM »


Hi Felix,

Here is an excerpt from 'PHYSICAL or SPIRITUAL  RESURRECTION BODIES FOR THE WICKED & NON-BELIEVERS?'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7474.0.html -----

There are few places in the Old Testament where a resurrection of dead people are mentioned or alluded to.  Jesus stated that the declaration, “Now concerning the resurrection of the dead, did you not read that which is declared to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living” (Matt. 22:31).

This statement proves that if God is the “God of the living,” but Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are dead when Jesus mentions them, then there has got to be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The major prophecy concerning the resurrection is found in Ezek. 37. Here we are shown a valley of “dry bones” which God says represents “the WHOLE House of Israel” -- “And He said unto me, `Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; lo, they are saying: Dried up have our bones, And perished has our hope, We have been cut off by ourselves” (Ezek. 37:11).

So the whole House of Israel dies in a condition of being “perished” with no “hope,” and are “cut off.”  But what does God tell Ezekiel He will do for them?

I am prophesying, and lo, a rushing, and draw near do the bones, bone unto its bone."

Eze 37:8  “And I beheld, and lo, on them [are] sinews [tendons, strength, muscular power], and flesh [muscles, fat, etc.]  has come up, and cover them does skin [the outer covering of a physical body] over above--and spirit there is none in them."

I know of no “spiritual” tendons, muscles, fat or skin, that are put on physical “bones” to remake a “spiritual” man.  This is a PHYSICAL resurrection of the dead, Eze 37:10 “And I have prophesied as He commanded me, and the Spirit comes into them, and they live, and stand on their feet--a very very great force” (Ezek. 37:10).
 
Notice that it takes the spirit from God to give these dried bones life once more. They then “stand on their feet.” This is the exact and precise definition of the word “resurrection.” It means to “stand up” upon one’s feet, but the word itself has nothing to do with being “spiritual” or “immortal” whatsoever.  Jesus raised a little girl and Lazarus from the dead, and they stood up on their feet and lived—they were not made spiritual bodies or given immortality. Likewise those saints resurrected at Christ’s resurrection, were not given spiritual bodies or immortality.

Nowhere are the wicked promised immortality or incorruption, nowhere.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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mharrell08

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Re: Resurrection
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2010, 08:19:43 PM »

One more question, if you don't mind. When a person is resurrected, what is resurrected? Since it takes a
body and spirit to make a soul, how is the soul resurrected?


Resurrected means to be made alive to stand, after one was dead. We have examples of this throughout Christ earthly ministry with Lazarus [John 11:41-44]] and the ruler, Jairus' daughter [Lk. 8:51-56].

I'm not sure I understand your 2nd question. Every living person on this earth is a living soul. Adam was made a 'living soul' [Gen 2:7]. When a person is said to be resurrected, that person is alive again. That is how a soul is resurrected...the person is alive again.


Hope that helps,

Marques
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Resurrection
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2010, 11:06:22 AM »

Quote
Since it takes a body and spirit to make a soul, how is the soul resurrected?

This is the exact and precise definition of the word “resurrection.” It means to “stand up” upon one’s feet, but the word itself has nothing to do with being “spiritual” or “immortal” whatsoever.   L Ray Smith

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7474.0.html

Felix
Everyone will have a body when they are resurrected. :)  Everyone will either have a physcial or a spritual body. That is how the soul will "stand up" either to judgment or,
 
1Th 4:17  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.   :)

Arc
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 11:54:17 AM by Arcturus »
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AK4

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Re: Resurrection
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2010, 01:41:12 PM »

Ive been debating with some atheists and i got to wondering just how great the resurrection will have to be for those who do not believe to believe.  I love science and realise how science and the scriptures must mesh together so in thinking about this and the atheists point of view and how science tries to explain everything and i cant imagine how spectacular the resurrection and Christ return will be, especially how where "every eye will see Him" will with NO DOUBT make nonbelievers believe [even if it is just a process of them being converted].  For them it will have to be such an overwhelming event that it squashes all doubt.

I dont know.  Just thinking out loud on the greatness of our Lord and Saviour.

Anthony
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margo

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Re: Resurrection
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2010, 02:27:15 PM »

Anthony, for me this debate is with those who say they do believe, but they do not understand the resurrection. Someday they will understand, and what a day that will be.

Blessings, Margo
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