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Author Topic: OLd and the new  (Read 1652 times)

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  • Guest
OLd and the new
« on: April 28, 2010, 01:26:10 PM »

In the old testament, when the spirit of Christ was in the Mountain before Israel and there was a command to kill anything that even touched the mountain. There were many commands that required the death penalty that just do not make any sense to me. Especially in regards to the example that Christ set before us in the new testament. I realize the new testament states we have a better and new covenant with God. If Christ was the same person he was in the old testament, why the drastic difference ? I often have trouble connecting the two as the same ( Christ ). Such harshness to such gentleness and compassion. What am I missing. 

G. Driggs

  • Guest
Re: OLd and the new
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2010, 03:20:24 PM »

Christ in the mountain and the command to kill is a type/shadow of something spiritual, of what Im not too sure. I do know He does not change, and He is the same.

Mal 3:6  For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Every one must die sooner or later in God's purifying, purging spiritual fire, because the "wages of sin is death" Rom 6:23 .

Maybe this short email answer will help.

Dear Matthew:

Matthew, you have got to stop talking about God as if He were a mere mortal MAN! God is NOT A MAN! God IS GOD! God is Holy and Righteous and Good and LOVING. He is not evil, neither is He LIMITED IN ANY WAY.

There are MANY things that God does that we as mortals are  NOT TO IMITATE! God "makes war in righteousness"--we cannot. God KILLS and brings back to life again--we cannot.

Because God has chosen to create and USE evil for a divine purpose, we have no right to judge God as BEING evil. He is not. Neither is it a SIN on God's part to make mortals WHO DO SIN. A sin is a mistake, a lack, lawlessness. God is NONE OF THESE!

Your suggestion that because God chooses to NOT DO or NOT BE certain things, that that somehow LIMITS Him is ludicrous. Listen carefully to what I am about to say:  A Being (God) Who has the POWER AND ABILITY to be and do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING HE WISHES, IS NOT LIMITED!!!  The fact that God chooses to not only tell the truth, but is, in fact, the embodiment of TRUTH, and never lies, in no way diminishes God or limits God.  I am surprised that you cannot see and understand this?  God IS AND DOES everything that He wishes--that, my friend, is TOTAL SOVEREIGNTY!!!

Hope this helps, if not maybe someone else can help.  :)



Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: OLd and the new
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2010, 05:33:59 PM »

What am I missing.

Deu 9:3  But the LORD your God has promised to go ahead of you, like a raging fire burning everything in its path. So when you attack your enemies, it will be easy for you to destroy them and take their land.
Deu 9:4  After the LORD helps you wipe out these nations and conquer their land, don't think he did it because you are such good people. You aren't good--you are stubborn! No, the LORD is going to help you, because the nations that live there are evil, and because he wants to keep the promise he made to your ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Deu 12:28  If you obey these laws, you will be doing what the LORD your God says is right and good. Then he will help you and your descendants be successful.
Deu 12:29  Israel, as you go into the land and attack the nations that are there, the LORD will get rid of them, and you can have their land.
Deu 12:30  But that's when you must be especially careful not to ask, "How did those nations worship their gods? Shouldn't we worship the LORD in the same way?"
Deu 12:31  No, you should not! The LORD hates the disgusting way those nations worship their gods, because they even burn their sons and daughters as sacrifices.
Deu 12:32  Obey all the laws and teachings I am giving you. Don't add any, and don't take any away.

Tit 1:13 This testimony is true. For which cause be exposing them severely, that they may be sound in the faith,

Ecc 3:3 A season to kill and a season to heal; A season to breach and a season to build;

Act 10:34  And Peter having opened his mouth, said, `Of a truth, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons,


Even if we were to accept Mr. Robertson’s theory that God had nothing to do with this Christmas tsunami, we would still be forced to concede that “God allowed it.” That is, in fact, the terminology that is used in most discussions of this subject—Why did God “allow” it? Why does God “allow” this, that, and the other thing?

Allow, allow, allow. That is the mind-set of most discussions whether they are religious or secular—Why did God “allow” it? Surely no one doubts God’s ability to stop any or all such catastrophes if He so desired? A man in an Atlanta Court House murdered three people. Since God obviously did not stop it, why then did God “allow” it?   Would you really like to know why God “allowed” those murders and why He allowed the Christmas tsunami?

And not only why did He allow this tsunami, but all tsunamis, and typhoons, and hurricanes, and floods, and tornadoes, and violent thunderstorms, and rock slides and mud slides, and avalanches, and volcanoes, and earthquakes, and forest fires, and droughts, and famines, and diseases, wars and holocausts, and (not just the killing 3 people in Atlanta), but all deaths? Do you really want to know why God “allows” these things? Are you sure you are ready for God’s answer to this most profound mystery in all creation?

I am reminded of the film, “A Few Good Men.” In a dramatic court scene Tom Cruise demands of the witness: “I want the TRUTH!” To which Jack Nicholson shouts back: “You can’t HANDLE the TRUTH!!” 

This is what I fear is the situation here. People think they want the truth, but they can’t handle the truth. Very few indeed want the whole Truth: the whole counsel of God. And most of those who have heard it have been highly offended by it. Often they killed the messengers who brought God’s message of Truth. That’s just how offensive the Truth of God is to the carnal mind. I have a drawer full of emails that speak volumes against God’s Truth.

But I know that there are a few chosen of God to whom the Truth is not offensive. For those few I will continue. As Joan Rivers used to say: “Can we talk?” Are your kids in bed? Can we talk? The remainder of this series on free will is not for the immature or faint of heart.

Okay then, back to our question: Why does God “allow” all of the pain, suffering, disasters, and even mass killing of the innocent to happen? Actually, the question is not even a legitimate question because God does not “allow” any of these disasters to happen. Here then is one of the greatest truths in all the world and of all Scripture:

God does not “allow” anything to happen: God is the ultimate CAUSE of all things that happen!

If a person is able to prevent a crime (let’s say without any expense or harm to himself) but doesn’t, he is no better than the one who commits the crime. So now the question is: “Where is Jesus Christ when all such crimes are committed?" Is Jesus no more powerful or responsible than the god Baal?

“About noontime, Elijah began mocking them [the priests of Baal]. You’ll have to shout louder than that; he scoffed, to catch the attention of your god! Perhaps he is talking to someone, or is out sitting on the toilet, or maybe he is away on a trip, or is asleep and needs to be wakened!” (I Kings 18:27, The Living Bible).

No, Jesus does not live far far away on the other side of the universe in a place called heaven. Heaven is not a place; heaven is the realm of spirit. Jesus does not sleep in heaven. Jesus does not live in a physical heaven. Jesus will not live in a physical body full of holes, for the rest of eternity either. It is impossible to even think about these important issues of life with the mentality of Christian doctrines. Jesus Christ is “spirit”: “Now the Lord is that SPIRIT…” (II Cor. 3:17). Make no mistake about it; Jesus Christ is present at every crime scene that ever was or will be.

Jesus is at the scene of every crime in the world, and He is there before the crime actually happens. What would Jesus say to a woman if she were in the presence of some slimeball who is hell-bent on raping her little daughter? We know that Jesus is there, but what if Jesus manifested Himself right there, at the scene? What would Jesus say when the woman would beg Him to stop this slimeball from raping or murdering her daughter?

Surely He would stop the crime, right? Well if that be the case, how come there are so many rapes and murders that have not been prevented by Jesus? Do not all parents (almost all) pray for the safety of their children? So the pat Christian answer is: “Well, we don’t know why, but God allowed it.” God no more allows crimes that harm one or two individuals than he allows tsunamies that harm and hundreds of thousands.

I am well aware of the fact that Jesus does at times intervene and stop some crime or evil from taking place. I am now referring to those times when He does not intervene and stop the crime. Why does He “allow” it?

You say, “Well, nobody knows the answer to that!” Oh but we do know the answer. The Scriptures give us the answer. We don’t want the Scriptural answer. We don’t want the truth. We can’t handle the truth. And woe to the messenger who delivers the truth!

And just what do we think we gain by using the catch phrase: “God allowed it?” Does that phrase get God off the hook of responsibility and place the responsibility upon His mal-functioning inventions?   Does the word “allow” carry the connotation: “I had nothing to do with it?” “My hands are clean?” “It’s not my job to prevent evil crimes?” Is this what the word “allow” really means?

The American Heritage College Dictionary:

“ allow v. –lowed, -lowing, -lows. 1. To LET do or happen; PERMIT.”

“permit v. –mitted, -mitting, -mits. 1. To ALLOW the doing of; CONSENT. 2. To GRANT. 3. To AFFORD OPPORTUNITY.

Now then, do we feel better about this theological heresy and nonsense by using the word “allow”? If a Police Officer were to, LET HAPPEN, PERMIT, CONSENT, GRANT, and AFFORD OPPORTUNITY for a horrible crime to take place without lifting a finger to stop it, would he be morally guiltless for “allowing” it to happen? Does the catch phrase “allow” with all of its definitions somehow make void the responsibility of the Police Officer? Is God Almighty less capable and less responsible than even a carnal-minded Police Officer?

Why then do theologians invent their own solution to the problem by applying the unscriptural word “allow” to the acts of God, rather than to accept the plain truth of Scripture concerning these matters? Well, for the exact same reason they invent the unscriptural phrase “free-will” to get God off of the hook of responsibility for the evils in God’s Own creation!   They don’t want the truth; they can’t handle the truth; the truth would convict their own evil and carnal-minded hearts, and they would be forced to humble themselves and repent!

Could any of us honestly say with respect to our presence at an imminent crime, that if we: “allowed, let happen, permitted to happen, consented to its happening, granted it to happen, and afforded it the opportunity to happen,” then our hands are clean? We have no involvement in the crime? We had no obligations, and we are not to be held accountable and responsible?

You know that I speak the truth, but many of you can’t handle the truth.

So am I saying that since God is the Creator of all, and Sustainer of all, and by Him all things Consist, and He already knows all that is and will be, and He works all things after the counsel of His Own will, that all of the crimes of the world are a part of God’s plan? No, that is not my teaching. But this is precisely what the Scriptures say! This is not some perverted theory. I read it in the Bible—in hundreds and hundreds of places!

I have no problem in justifying God in all of His doings, even though I personally am overwhelmed at times over the magnitude of pain and evil that God has subjected us to. It is humbling! It surely does produce God’s desired purpose, and I can personally attest to this fact. Inventing an unscriptural and anti-scriptural term like "human free will" or "free choice" does not remove the consequences of evil from God's shoulders.

Hope this helps some.



  • Guest
Re: OLd and the new
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2010, 05:39:37 PM »

In the old testament, when the spirit of Christ was in the Mountain before Israel and there was a command to kill anything that even touched the mountain. There were many commands that required the death penalty that just do not make any sense to me.

These accounts from the OT were but a shadow of a higher, spiritual reality [Hebrews 8]. The penalty of death was but a shadow to the 2nd death, upon all transgressors.

1 Cor 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition...

Acts 17:31  Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness...

Isa 26:9  ...for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Rev 20:12,14-15  I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works...whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire...This is the second death.

Every thought, word, & deed (one's works) that is contrary to God and His righteousness will be cast down & brought into obedience to Christ [2 Cor 10:5]. Ultimately, these works will be tried by the lake of fire, which is the 2nd death.

Especially in regards to the example that Christ set before us in the new testament. I realize the new testament states we have a better and new covenant with God. If Christ was the same person he was in the old testament, why the drastic difference ? I often have trouble connecting the two as the same ( Christ ). Such harshness to such gentleness and compassion. What am I missing.

Wisdom, which comes from above. It is why Paul admonishes us to 'study to show ourselves approved'. One can't be diligent in seeking understanding from the Lord by looking for quick, simple answers.

There is a 'drastic difference' between the old covenant & the new...but not in our Lord & Savior. Study the material on the site, take time to search the scriptures daily, and seek understanding from the Lord.

"It would be beneficial to all involved if you take the time to familiarize yourself with the teaching of L.Ray Smith first."

Hope this helps,



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Re: OLd and the new
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2010, 09:02:10 PM »

AMEN   art
Walk in the Spirit


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Re: OLd and the new
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2010, 09:40:54 PM »

Absolutely I can handle the truth ! and thank you very much for taking the time to explain.
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