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Author Topic: What does this mean?  (Read 4277 times)

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Roy Martin

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What does this mean?
« on: May 13, 2010, 11:50:42 AM »

(Rom 8:20)  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

What does hath subjected the same in hope mean?

Peace
Roy
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mharrell08

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Re: What does this mean?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2010, 12:11:28 PM »

(Rom 8:20)  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

What does hath subjected the same in hope mean?

Peace
Roy


Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3796.msg28737.html#msg28737):

COMMENT:  Since God designed the human race to FAIL before it would succeed:  "For the creature was made subject to vanity [Margin: 'futility'--failure], NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him Who has subjected the same IN HOPE, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION [that's how man was made in the garden] into the glorious liberty of the CHILDREN OF GOD [that's man's future destiny]" (Rom. 8:20-21) Etc. Read the rest of my site for the details.
God be with you,
Ray



Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 2 (http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html):

If a thousand Christians were given the assignment to write an essay describing the world as it was after God completed it, but before man sinned, I am positive that we would get one thousand essays describing the unbelievable beauty, harmony, and perfection of all creation including man and beast. However, would such essays be based on the Scriptures? Letís look at a little understood Scripture.

    "For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [thatís God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!

Wow! Did you know that Scripture is in the Bible? Have you ever meditated at length on its meaning? This one Scripture does much damage to Christian doctrine. From a strictly carnal-minded approach, this Scripture is devastating. Letís see what these words entail from Strongís GREEK DICTIONARY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT:

    VANITY: empty, profitless, vain, transientness [temporary], depravity [wickedness].

    BONDAGE: slavery, subjection, subserviency.

    CORRUPTION: shrivel, wither, spoil, ruin, deprave, defile, destroy, decay, perish

    GROAN: moan, calamity, be in straits, murmur, grief, grudge, anguish.

    TRAVAIL: pangs, to pain together, travail as in birth.

    PAIN: anguish, toil for daily subsistence, starving.

The force of these verses in Rom. 8:20-22 is inescapable. It was God HIMSELF Who subjected the whole creation to vanity, and He didnít ask anyoneís permission before He did it. And it is only God Himself Who will deliver the whole creation from the bondage of corruption, pain, and suffering. Make no mistake about it: God is the Creator of evil, and He takes full responsibility for the deliverance from the consequences of all the evils that have caused the creation to "groan and travail in PAIN until NOW" as Paul describes. God takes responsibility for the temporary failures of creation so that He can take all the credit and glory for its successes.

And most of the glory that God will receive is from the glory that He gives to all mankind.



Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 12 (http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html):

Seriously, when all the Sons and Daughters of God are manifested IN THEIR GLORY, why would the ENTIRE CREATION be awaiting this event with almost uncontrollable bated breath, excitement, and anticipation? WHY? What is it that the churches have never told you? What is God going to do with all these glorified Sons and Daughters?

You have heard enough lies, now letís read Godís Truth. Here is one of the most profound and all-encompassing Scriptures in the entirety of the Bible:

    "For the earnest expectation of the creature [creation] waits for THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD. For the creature [creation] was MADE subject to VANITY [ĎÖsurely, EVERY MAN IS VANITYí-- Psalm 39:11], NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [GOD] Who has subjected the same in HOPE. Because the creature [creation] itself also shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption [corruption includes DEATH] into THE GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD. For we know that THE WHOLE CREATION GROANS AND TRAVAILS IN PAIN together until now" (Rom. 8:19-22).

WOW! Let me point out a few marvelous things in this verse. Notice the chronological order of things in this Scripture and see how it contradicts the terrible teaching of orthodox doctrine:

First the Sons of God are manifested or shown to be what they really areóSPIRITUAL SONS OF GOD (and DAUGHTERSóII Cor. 6:18)! No longer flesh and blood. No longer subject to the pulls of a carnal mind, but True Sons in the very IMAGE OF GOD and His Son, Jesus Christ.

But what happens next? What happens to all the rest of humanity who are not sons and daughters and are not saved? What will happen to them? Just why, pray tell, are they eagerly awaiting the manifestation of these Sons and Daughters? Of what value is the salvation and manifestation of the few chosen saints to those left behind who are not saved?

The Church teaches the world that the rest of humanity will be tortured for all eternity in the lake of fire. Is that true? Is that the purpose of the lake of fire is?

Next we read what the condition of the rest of humanity is, how they got that way, and what is the solution to the problem.

    "For the creature [creation] was made subject to VANITY, not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope" (Rom. 8:20).

God MADE man subject to vanity. God did not ask manís permission to do this. God did it for His own wise purpose. But God is not a fiend that takes pleasure in the failures of weak humanity. God did not make man in a condition of vanity so that most of humanity would fail of the ideal, and God would then torture most of his creation eternally, when it was He Who created them weak and subjected them to every form of vanity in the first place. God created the whole creation subject to vanity. It is, therefore, Godís responsibility to get man out of this mess.

God supernaturally made a way for the "manifested Sons of God" to conquer the flesh and the carnal mind and be formed into the very image of God with the very mind of Christ! They will be no longer subject to vanity when they are manifested. They will be no longer subject to "the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION." They will be FREE!

And it is they who will then FREE the rest of humanity from their bondage! What was the purpose for this subjection to vanity? So that they will eternally fail and God would eternally torture them for their failure? No! Letís read it:

God has, "subjected the same IN HOPE" (Verse 20). Wait a minute, am I saying that all of humanity, who fail to be in the first resurrection and become the manifest Sons and Daughters of God, will nonetheless still have "hope?" Is there really hope for all the lost and unsaved? How can this be? Arenít they going to be subjected to the "lake of fire?" Yes, but there is "hope" in the lake of fire. In fact, the lake of fire is their ONLY HOPE! They will not be eternally tortured just because they did not attain to the first resurrection, but will rather be "DELIVERED!" Letís read it:



Hope this helps,

Marques
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Roy Martin

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Re: What does this mean?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2010, 09:18:30 PM »

Quote;
God has, "subjected the same IN HOPE" (Verse 20). Wait a minute, am I saying that all of humanity, who fail to be in the first resurrection and become the manifest Sons and Daughters of God, will nonetheless still have "hope?" Is there really hope for all the lost and unsaved? How can this be? Arenít they going to be subjected to the "lake of fire?" Yes, but there is "hope" in the lake of fire. In fact, the lake of fire is their ONLY HOPE! They will not be eternally tortured just because they did not attain to the first resurrection, but will rather be "DELIVERED!" Letís read it:

Thanks you Marque.
That's an excellent explanation and answer.

Roy
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