Why did Jesus say "why do you call me good?"

[wonderment]

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. (Mark 10:18)

I heard a muslim man use this verse as his argument that Jesus was only a prophet and not God.

[Kat]

Hi wonderment,

This is from the 09 conference I think it will help you see why Jesus could not have been 'just' a man.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.0.html ---------

Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked Him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
v. 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why do you call Me good? There is none good, but one, that is God.

Some people would use that to prove that Christ cannot be referred to as God, because He said "only God (speaking of His Father here) is good."  But when He said this, He had divested Himself of all His power and glory, so He was in human form in the weakened state of flesh.
v
Could a man, just a man now, be the Savior of the world?  See, if you're going to argue that Jesus Christ was a man, only a man and nothing divine about him, there are all kinds of problems, just philosophically speaking.

Why would He have to be conceived by God?  Why?  He's just a man and men are born all the time.  So we want him to be of the line of Judah.  All right, fine, let's get a Jewish boy.  You get a Jewish boy and Jewish girl, we'll marry them and they'll have a baby boy and he'll be the Savior of the world.  Why not?

Think about it.  Let's think about all the words. Why did Jesus have to be conceived by His Father?  Why, if He's just a man.  Jewish women have boys all the time.  If He had to be something special above a man, then He was no longer 'just a man.'  Did I say something wrong?  If He had to be something more than a man, then He's more than a man, He's not just a man.

Is any Jewish boy's life worth all the billions of humanity combined?  Is any Jewish boy worth that?  [attendee: No.]  How so?

Why didn't God say, We need a Jewish boy... Jacobson, we'll use you, we're going to crucify you and you're going to save the world that way. --  'Me?'
Yeah, what do you do for a living?  -- 'I'm a carpenter.'
Yeah, that will do. You're a carpenter, okay. We'll kill you and that way I'll save the whole world. --  'Of what value am I that my life is worth more than the whole world of humanity, billions of people?
What would God say?  Well yeah, you're worth more than the rest of humanity put together. --  'How so? Why?'

So why was He conceived by God?  If God wanted a man He could have chosen any man.  If He wanted him to be born of a virgin... fine, he could be born of a virgin. But why did He have to be conceived by God Himself? WHY?
v
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
v. 29 how much worse punishment, do you suppose, shall he be thought worthy of, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, (that's the blood of Jesus Christ) wherein He was sanctified, an unholy thing...

"An unholy thing" is the word 'koinos' (Strong's 2839) it means common, something that is shared by all or several. 

In other words, just a man, same as any other man, common. It is also translated as 'unclean' when talking about ceremonial things.

Greek-English Keyword Concordance:
Common, belonging to all equally, by implication, NOT SACRED, contaminating ("to make common").

Vines Concise Dictionary of the Bible:
Koinos - common, ordinary; belonging to the generality as distinct from something that is peculiar.

So it is, woe be if you consider the blood of Jesus Christ to be like any other man's blood. Yet one man told me that 'His blood was no better than mine.' Whoa, I would fear to even think something like that, let alone say it.

He was not common. He was not what is shared by everyone.  It says

Php 2:7   ...and took upon Him the form of a servant...

Rom 8:3  ...God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh...

Heb 2:7  You made Him a little lower than the angels;

He took on the form of a servant and He was made like unto sinful flesh and He was made a little lower than the angels... it's not talking about somebody who came out in a natural childbirth.  He was MADE. The scriptures say He was "made a little lower (or for a little while lower) than the angels."  WHY?  So He could die!
v
Heb 2:8  Thou hast put all things in subjection under his (humanity) feet. For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him (under humanity).
v. 9 But we see Jesus, who was MADE...

You see that word, He was MADE.  He wasn't always that way. He had to be MADE that way.  Now, if He were just a man born of a woman, He wouldn't have had to be made anything.  Any man born of a woman will die.  "It is appointed unto all men once to die," but the only way Jesus could die was that God had to MAKE Him lower than the angels, so that He could die.  Are you following me? Does it make sense?  That Jesus was not 'just' born, before He got to the process of actually being born.  He had to be MADE something else from what He was.  WHY? Because what He was, He couldn't die. God didn't force this on Him.  We learn all through the scriptures, Jesus Christ 'volunteered.'

John 10:17  Therefore doth my Father love Me, because I lay down My life, that I might take it again.
v. 18  No man takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.

He said nobody takes My life.  God the Father did not say, I'm going to sacrifice You, come hell or high water and You aren't going to have nothing to say about it.  He said, "I lay down My life,"  "I" do it, He says.  He volunteered.

So, He was made a little lower than the angels for or because of the fact that He had to die.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

[aqrinc]

According to these Scriptures and many others, Jesus Christ Is God, so He Is The Good Master. That question was asking; Why call me Good Master, unless you know I am God, because Only God Is Good.

1Sa 2:2 (BBE)
No other is holy as the Lord, for there is no other God but you: there is no Rock like our God.

1Sa 2:6 (GNB)
The LORD kills and restores to life; he sends people to the world of the dead and brings them back again.

Mar 10:18 (BBE)
And Jesus said to him, Why do you say I am good? no one is good but one, and that is God.

Luk 2:11 (CEV)
This very day in King David's hometown a Savior was born for you. He is Christ the Lord.

Rom 8:9 (CLV)
Yet you are not in flesh, but in spirit, if so be that God's spirit is making its home in you. Now if anyone has not Christ's spirit, this one is not His."

From: WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS? & WHO IS HIS FATHER? . Nashville Conference 2007

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg39178.html#msg39178

the section was taken from the Nashville notes]

"There is ONE GOD" (I Cor.8:5); "God is SPIRIT" (John 6:24);

"by ONE SPIRIT  baptized into one body" (I Co. 12:13);

"But he that is joined unto the Lord IS ONE SPIRIT" (I Cor. 6:17); "I and My Father are ONE" (John 10:30)

"There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in ONE HOPE, of your calling; ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL, Who is ABOVE ALL, and THROUGH ALL, and IN YOU ALL" (Eph. 4:4-6).

HENCE: WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT JESUS, WE KNOW ABOUT HIS FATHER

Jesus spoke the words of His Father and did the works of His Father (John 14:10 & 14:24 & 5:19).

Jesus Christ "declares the FATHER" (John 1:18). And reveals the Father to whomever the Son desires (Matt. 11:27). Jesus was revealing the Father to the disciples His whole ministry, but Phillip missed is: (John 14:9-11). Remember when Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM"? (John 8:58). He was also revealing HIMSELF as the God of the Old Testament.

Jesus Christ IS THE GOD OF THE OLD TESTAMENT!
He is THE GOD OF THE BIBLE!
Jesus Christ is the ONLY REVELATION OF GOD THAT WE HAVE.
Even the Holy Spirit we all have comes from God THROUGH Jesus Christ.
Jesus is that Comforter, that Spirit.
Our Saviour and our Brother.
The Son of God.

george .

[soberxp]

son of man and son of god.

[G. Driggs]

Jesus is humble and gives all the credit and glory to His Father.

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What is the gospel of the kingdom?......Mobile conference 05'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.0.html

HUMBLE YOURSELF
                                   
I have read you what God has in store for us.  A kingdom of priests, royal, kingly, holy, Godly nation, special precious people unto God.  Judges, saviors, sons of God, lords, kings, you don't get lifted any higher than that in the universe in all eternity ever.  That the pinnacle, that's it that's the ultimate height.
Now notice what James says. 

James 4:10  Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

You've got to be humble, it's of paramount importance.
But be careful how you judge people.  You know I can raise my voice, I can even be  a little sarcastic and some people think that is haughty.  But they don't know me and that's alright.  Sometimes when they go a little overboard on that, I copy and paste from my 'Jesus Christ to the Pharisees.'  Where I just take out all the terms - hypocrites, lying two faced, blind guides, generation of snakes and I send it to them.  I say do you think Christ is humble?  "Well yea, He was.'  So you can lift your voice and call a spade a spade and still be humble?  'Well He can, but you can't.'  Oh okay, but I thought we were suppose to be like Him?  Christ is the anointed and guess what?  So are we, we are the anointed, Christ lives in us. We are the heavens of the Father's dwelling place.

A friend of mine wrote a book, about how to leave church without leaving God or something like that.  He sent me the manuscript before it went to press. I said to him, you can't say these things, I mean it had some really foul language.  I said you can not use language like that, it won't fly.  I said to him, Paul said don't let any filthy communication come out of your mouth (Eph. 4:29).  Do you know what his response was to me?  Well I'm not Paul and I don't claim to be Paul. But what does the gospel of Paul say?   Follow me as I follow Christ.  We are suppose to be like Paul.  That's not humble to say, well I'm not Paul or I'm no Christ. As He is so are we in the world.  Isn't that what John said,

1 John 4:17  ...because as He is, so are we in this world.

Peter said He left us an example, that we walk and we follow in His footsteps.

1Peter 2:21  For hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that ye should follow his steps:

I mean we don't even walk beside or behind Him, but in the same steps.

Mat 23:5  But all their works they do to be seen by men.

James 4:10  Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

Mat 18:2  And Jesus called a little child to Him and set him in their midst,
v. 3  and said, Truly I say to you, except you are converted and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of Heavens.
v. 4  Therefore whoever shall humble himself like this little child, this one is the greater in the kingdom of Heaven.

Humility, God loves humility.  When you see how weak you are, then God can show how strong He is.  But if you are the 99 that don't need saving, you won't be saved.
Christ said...

Mat 9:13   For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.

That's tongue and cheek.  There are no righteous, just those that think they are righteous.
Jesus said...

Mat 11:28  Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
v. 29  Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am meek (Greek there is gentle and humble) and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

Jesus Christ was gentle and humble. 
Somebody just made the comment once to Him, they said "good master"  and He said whoa whoa slow down.

Mat 19:17  So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.

Don't call Me good.  I mean if Jesus Christ says don't even call Me good, that humility.  Because it isn't that He didn't know He did everything right and good, He just didn't take credit for it.  It was all of God.
Come unto Me for I am gentle and meek and lowly and you shall receive rest unto your souls. 
Some people are in turmoil, they are in constant turmoil, they are not happy.  Why?  They are striving, they want to be happy.  Happiness it's out there... it's up there... it's in the future, but they don't have it. 

I was going to talk today about who wants to be happy.  But this one was going to be too long, so I scratched it.  It was going to be either the one on the destiny of women or who wants to be happy.  Happy lost. 

Be humble, be teachable, read it, see it, believe it, do it. 
I don't assume that everything I teach is automatically perfect.  Certain things I know, I know when I'm on safe ground, I know.  I mean I've been around the block a few times and I've repented before God.  I understand spiritual principles, but I don't claim to know it all.  But when you live by the Word, then you understand the doctrine.
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G.Driggs

[wonderment]

what if Jesus meant by "Why do you call me good, there is none good but God"

what if this was Jesus' way of telling the man that he was God without saying it directly.


In other words "If I am good, and there is none good but God... then "


what do you think? wouldn't it be within Jesus' character to have meant this?

[Dave in Tenn]

what if Jesus meant by "Why do you call me good, there is none good but God"

what if this was Jesus' way of telling the man that he was God without saying it directly.


In other words "If I am good, and there is none good but God... then "


what do you think? wouldn't it be within Jesus' character to have meant this?

Yes, I certainly think so.  I don't know of a time he spoke to any but his disciples with a straight, clear, unambiguous, literal answer.

[Deborah-Leigh]

The one that came running and kneeling in front of Jesus calling Him Good Master asked  "What shall I DO to inherit"....How good did he really think Jesus was?  If He KNEW JESUS, he may have asked Jesus to give Him what He needed instead of assuming he could do anything to get what only God can give!

Jesus told him that he lacked one thing.

Elsewhere in the Scriptures, there is one who wrongly assumed and offered to pay money for the Holy Spirit of God.

Act 8:20  But Peter said to him, May your silver perish with you, because you have thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Arc

[mharrell08]

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. (Mark 10:18)

I heard a muslim man use this verse as his argument that Jesus was only a prophet and not God.

Because He 'emptied Himself' or divested all His power and glory which He had before:

Phil 2:6-8  although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross [ASB]

John 17:5  O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Matt 28:18  Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth

This simple word 'good' was in reference to all omnipotence, glory, and honor (up to and including immortality), which Christ divested Himself of in order to die. Ray goes over this and much more detail, though from a slightly different angle, in his 2009 Conference study 'Is Jesus God?': http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.msg99625.html#msg99625


Hope this helps,

Marques

[daywalker]

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. (Mark 10:18)

I heard a muslim man use this verse as his argument that Jesus was only a prophet and not God.

During a study I'm currently doing a noticed a few translations that word this passage a bit different. I recalled this post and thought these translations may help:

English Standard Version:

Matthew 19:16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" 17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."


Concordant Literal New Testament:

Matthew 19:16 And lo! one coming to Him said, "Teacher, what good shall I be doing that I should be having life eonian? 17 Yet He said to him, "Why are you asking Me concerning good? One is good. Yet if you are wanting to be entering into life, keep the precepts."


Rotherham's Emphasized Bible:

Matthew 19:16  And lo! one coming near unto him, said, Teacher! what good thing shall I do, that I may have life age-abiding? 17 And, he, said unto him—Why dost thou question me concerning that which is good? There is, One, that is good! But, if thou desirest, into life, to enter, be keeping the commandments.


**NOTE:

-- In NEITHER of these translations does the man call Jesus "Good" Teacher... but just "Teacher"

--Jesus' response is essentially, 'you already know what God's commandments are, so why are you asking me?'


Thought this would help clear the air... Daywalker 

[GinaMilan]

The one that came running and kneeling in front of Jesus calling Him Good Master asked  "What shall I DO to inherit"....How good did he really think Jesus was?  If He KNEW JESUS, he may have asked Jesus to give Him what He needed instead of assuming he could do anything to get what only God can give!

Jesus told him that he lacked one thing.

Elsewhere in the Scriptures, there is one who wrongly assumed and offered to pay money for the Holy Spirit of God.

Act 8:20  But Peter said to him, May your silver perish with you, because you have thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Arc

That totally nails it.  Pieced together very nicely, as per usual, Arc.

I don't know if this helps, but I also imagined that since he was a rich ruler on earth, he figured heavenly rule would make him even richer (literally)?

But Jesus, hearing from His Father ("as I hear I judge" John 5:30) totally nailed the young man's true motives and what was most important to him (money).  

And this I distinctly recall; and maybe you all remember Ray pointing out somewhere on his site or on an audio when he reminded us that Jesus, being full of compassion, was looking at the rich young ruler and loved him":

Mark 10:21 (KJV)   Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Mark 10:21 (CLV)  Now Jesus, looking at him, loves him, and said to him, "Still one thing you are wanting.

I remember reading that for the first time about 10 years ago and it gave me chills.

Anyhoo....  That's all I wanted to say.  

[GinaMilan]

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. (Mark 10:18)

I heard a muslim man use this verse as his argument that Jesus was only a prophet and not God.

During a study I'm currently doing a noticed a few translations that word this passage a bit different. I recalled this post and thought these translations may help:

English Standard Version:

Matthew 19:16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" 17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."


Concordant Literal New Testament:

Matthew 19:16 And lo! one coming to Him said, "Teacher, what good shall I be doing that I should be having life eonian? 17 Yet He said to him, "Why are you asking Me concerning good? One is good. Yet if you are wanting to be entering into life, keep the precepts."


Rotherham's Emphasized Bible:

Matthew 19:16  And lo! one coming near unto him, said, Teacher! what good thing shall I do, that I may have life age-abiding? 17 And, he, said unto him—Why dost thou question me concerning that which is good? There is, One, that is good! But, if thou desirest, into life, to enter, be keeping the commandments.


**NOTE:

-- In NEITHER of these translations does the man call Jesus "Good" Teacher... but just "Teacher"

--Jesus' response is essentially, 'you already know what God's commandments are, so why are you asking me?'


Thought this would help clear the air... Daywalker 

Thank you for pointing that out, Daywalker.  It's Mark's account which uses the term, "Good Teacher" (or Good Master).  I just realized this myself.  So thank you.

Mark 10:17 {ESV} And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Mark 10:17 {CLV} And at His going out into the road, lo! one certain rich man, running toward Him and falling on his knees before Him, inquired of Him, "Good Teacher! What shall I be doing that I should be enjoying the allotment of life eonian?"  18 Now Jesus said to him, "Why are you terming Me good? No one is good except One, God.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to Rotherham's, so I can't check Mark's account in that translation. 

Anyway.  Thanks again, Daywalker!

[Deborah-Leigh]

Heart ~ While yet we are sinners He loves us too. 

Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

This gives us Hope!

Mind ~ The one thing thou lackest IS JESUS CHRIST who had not yet been crucified for this brother who was seeking, knowing that something was missing in his life. He did not know What or WHO it was that he lacked.

Have you ever heard it said from those who have "got everything that money can buy"....Cant buy me love.... (Beatles lyrics) 

Have you ever sensed or felt the pain in outwardly  well groomed, well lacquered manicured people of external glitz and glamour, that are at heart, blind naked and wretched not knowing the fruit of His Spirit, Love, Joy, Peace, Kindness, Goodness, Gentleness, Faithfulness, Patience and Endurance ~ Not knowing WHO they lack, and What they lack, and despising  and blaming God, remaining blind as per the Plan of God for them. 

God brings us to His Mercy and Goodness and until our repentance through Grace and the Goodness of God comes to us, we can not see that the false and posed happiness and elation of the porn trap that captures many, is and can be applied to anything in life that is worldly, temporal and has not the love of God in it.

Arc

[mharrell08]

**NOTE:

-- In NEITHER of these translations does the man call Jesus "Good" Teacher... but just "Teacher"

--Jesus' response is essentially, 'you already know what God's commandments are, so why are you asking me?'


Thought this would help clear the air... Daywalker 

While these particular passages do not have the young ruler refer to Jesus as 'good', in all 3 Jesus does state there is One who is good and this is talking about God. I agree with your explanation of what Jesus response means, but I would add that He still nonetheless refers to One who is Good.


Marques

[GinaMilan]

I'm still studying these out, so your patience and correction are appreciated.   Hopefully what I say below doesn't sound as though it contradicts what Marques pointed out, above:

"This simple word 'good' was in reference to all omnipotence, glory, and honor (up to and including immortality), which Christ divested Himself of in order to die. Ray goes over this and much more detail, though from a slightly different angle, in his 2009 Conference study 'Is Jesus God?'"

Source http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.msg99625.html#msg99625

Okay, this is how it sounds to me:

Jesus was saying to the man, "Why do you call me "good" when you don't even know what 'good' (God) is/does, and I can prove it to you:    Go sell all you possess and give your money (the thing that rules you) to the poor."   Jesus [who is God in the flesh] comes to serve, not to be served. But "service to others" by "emptying" himself was not "good" in the ruler's vocab.  (I'm not judging.)

I know that Jesus emptied Himself in order that He could die (because God can't die).  And Ray points out these things in the 2009 Mobile Conference:

"God is a Savior, but so is Jesus. How is He a Savior?  It's one of those many things that God possesses that He gave to the Son.  Everything that God has He gave to the Son.  That's how Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him and they are ONE.   One person? No. One what? One God? YES!

Mr. Buzzard says, "they're one unified spirit; they're one in spirit."  Excuse me, what is God?  SPIRIT.  I and My Father are one spirit?  "God IS spirit" (John 4:24).  I and My Father are ONE GOD.  Can two individuals be one individual? No. Can two individuals be one God? Yes.  Yes, they can."

"GOD IS SPIRIT" (John 4:24)
"I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE" - ONE WHAT? One GOD or One SPIRIT? Excuse me!! 'GOD IS SPIRIT" (John 4:24)!!
How many "Gods" are there? ONE
How many Gods does Jesus AND His Father make? ONE  

Source:  http://bible-truths.com/audio/Worship.mp3 - audio 1 Mobile Conference 2009

I realize Jesus is very humble,  and doesn't take credit for the things that God does through Him ("I can of my own self do nothing"), but Jesus did say "I and My Father are One; He didn't say will again be One [God], or were One [God] at one time before I emptied Myself.  

I'm beginning to view what Jesus said to the ruler as being an examination, rather than a revelation of Who God is, when Jesus said, "Why do you call Me good?  One is good, that is God." ("I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE")

I believe the Father simply had no desire to reveal Jesus as God to the rich young ruler, since the ruler had no desire to know what good really is/does.

I love studying with you all.  Thank you again for your patience!!

[mharrell08]

I'm still studying these out, so your patience and correction are appreciated.   Hopefully what I say below doesn't sound as though it contradicts what Marques pointed out, above:

"This simple word 'good' was in reference to all omnipotence, glory, and honor (up to and including immortality), which Christ divested Himself of in order to die. Ray goes over this and much more detail, though from a slightly different angle, in his 2009 Conference study 'Is Jesus God?'"

Source http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.msg99625.html#msg99625

Okay, his is how it sounds to me:

Jesus was saying to the man, "Why do you call me "good" when you don't even know what 'good' (God) is/does, and I can prove it to you:    Go sell all you possess and give your money (the thing that rules you) to the poor."   Jesus [who is God in the flesh] comes to serve, not to be served. But "service to others" by "emptying" himself was not "good" in the ruler's vocab.  (I'm not judging.)

I know that Jesus emptied Himself in order that He could die (because God can't die); however, Ray points out these things in the 2009 Mobile Conference:

"God is a Savior, but so is Jesus. How is He a Savior?  It's one of those many things that God possesses that He gave to the Son.  Everything that God has He gave to the Son.  That's how Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him and they are ONE.   One person? No. One what? One God? YES!

Mr. Buzzard says, "they're one unified spirit; they're one in spirit."  Excuse me, what is God?  SPIRIT.  I and My Father are one spirit?  "God IS spirit" (John 4:24).  I and My Father are ONE GOD.  Can two individuals be one individual? No. Can two individuals be one God? Yes.  Yes, they can."

"GOD IS SPIRIT" (John 4:24)
"I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE" - ONE WHAT? One GOD or One SPIRIT? Excuse me!! 'GOD IS SPIRIT" (John 4:24)!!
How many "Gods" are there? ONE
How many Gods does Jesus AND His Father make? ONE  

Source:  http://bible-truths.com/audio/Worship.mp3 - audio 1 Mobile Conference 2009

I realize Jesus is very humble,  and doesn't take credit for the things that God does through Him ("I can of my own self do nothing"), but Jesus did say "I and My Father are One; He didn't say will again be One [God], or were at one time before I emptied Myself One [God].  

I'm beginning to view what Jesus said to the ruler as being an examination rather than a revelation of Who God is when Jesus said, "Why do you call Me good?  One is good, that is God."  I believe the Father simply had no desire to reveal Jesus as God to the rich young ruler, since the ruler had no desire to know what good really is.

I love studying with you all.  Thank you again for your patience!!

And one other point to keep in mind is that 'God' is not a name, but rather a title. This title, and all its power and glory, is what Paul tells us that Jesus emptied or divested Himself of [Phil 2:6-8]. That is why the Lord prays that the Father restore Him to the glory that He once had [John 17:5]. To 'once had' something implies that He did not have it at this time.

I realize Jesus is very humble,  and doesn't take credit for the things that God does through Him ("I can of my own self do nothing"), but Jesus did say "I and My Father are One; He didn't say will again be One [God], or were at one time before I emptied Myself One [God].

Jesus did not need say these things in these exact words. He and His apostles state them in other places, throughout the NT. We are told that Jesus was made 'a little lower than angels' [Heb 2:9], that He emptied/divested Himself [Phil 2:6-8], that all power in heaven & earth was 'given' back to Him [John 17:5, Matt 28:18].

As I said earlier, Jesus 'gave up' all omnipotence to be made into a man who could die. As the apostles tell us, 'all things consist by Him' [Col 1:17]. If, as God while He was flesh, all things consisted by Him, how would they consist when He died? All things continued to consist by His Father and this sovereign power was 'given' back to Jesus in His resurrection [again Matt 28:18].


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Deborah-Leigh]

Like Father, like Son!  

Jesus is like His Father in All Ways yet He is NOT His Father.

I think you are right about the fact that Jesus did not give the man the understanding required to obey, see or hear or follow Him.

Luk 19:42 "O that at this time thou hadst known--yes even thou--what makes peace possible! But now it is hid from thine eyes.

And the man went away sorrowful after hearing that he lacked one thing which was the Spirit of Christ to make him able to see, know and understand, obey and follow. It was not given to him. Not then anyway.

1Co 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.  

Arc

[GinaMilan]

Like Father, like Son!  

Jesus is like His Father in All Ways yet He is NOT His Father.

Arc

Righty-O, Arc.  Jesus is definitely not His [own] Father.    I hope it doesn't appear to anyone that I was saying that. 

And still, one of Jesus' titles is "Father":

(Isaiah 9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I'm guessing the "shall be called" all these titles apply to Him in His present state of glory and not in His earthly ministry?  (Have I just completely hijacked this thread?)

Thanks!

[GinaMilan]

(Again, I hope I haven't hijacked this thread.)

Hi, Marques

You were saying how He

emptied/divested Himself [Phil 2:6-8], that all power in heaven & earth was 'given' back to Him [John 17:5, Matt 28:18].

As I said earlier, Jesus 'gave up' all omnipotence to be made into a man who could die. As the apostles tell us, 'all things consist by Him' [Col 1:17]. If, as God while He was flesh, all things consisted by Him, how would they consist when He died? All things continued to consist by His Father and this sovereign power was 'given' back to Jesus in His resurrection [again Matt 28:18].

Right -- God's a title and Jesus emptied Himself of all His omnipotence (i.e., power in heaven and earth) to be made a man/flesh.  Got it.  

And now I just noticed something I never noticed before in John 17:5.  (I'm really hesitant to say what I'm thinking.   It's just a thought.   I'm not here to cause anyone to stumble.)  It says:

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

I automatically presumed that Jesus emptied Himself of all power and glory in the moments directly preceeding His being sent, His literal conception, right before He became "flesh."  But now that I've taken another look, "that I had with thee before the world" sounds like He emptied Himself way before that.  (Maybe "world" is a mistranslation?  I have to check a Strong's.)  

Thanks for your ongoing patience and help with this verse, Marques.  

[mharrell08]

And now I just noticed something I never noticed before in John 17:5.  (I'm really hesitant to say what I'm thinking.   It's just a thought.   I'm not here to cause anyone to stumble.)  It says:

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

I automatically presumed that Jesus emptied Himself of all power and glory in the moments directly preceeding His being sent, His literal conception, right before He became "flesh."  But now that I've taken another look, "that I had with thee before the world" sounds like He emptied Himself way before that.  (Maybe "world" is a mistranslation?  I have to check a Strong's.)  

Thanks for your ongoing patience and help with this verse, Marques.

No worries Gina, this has been a fruitful discussion I believe...not one of strife that the forum has had in past threads.

Jesus prayed to the Father to be restored with the glory which He had before the world was. But He does not say the glory that He 'only' had before the world was. The glory that Jesus speaks of was given to Him, by the Father, before the world was. And by this glory and power Jesus created all things:

Eph 3:8-9  Unto me [Paul], who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ

Col 1:16-17  For by Him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.

Rev 4:11  Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Remember, the only reason Jesus voluntarily gave up all that was given to Him by the Father was for the express purpose of being able to die:

Phil 2:8  being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross

Heb 2:9  we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death


Hope this helps,

Marques