23 Minutes in Hell article posted

[Morten]

I remember first time i listen to "23 minutes in hell" When i went on dts  4 years ago i think. And i cant believe my self how stupid it is to believe this. I think i have listen to it at least 6 times (got more exited every time). I got so upset and sad, to think about how many people was going to hell. So i was so close to take up the sword and tell the world. Also take a CD copy and give it to people to show whats going on.  Off, thank god he brought me\us here:)


Good job Ray. I love your work:)

Funny post arion

[GinaMilan]

Bill Wiese really is not a very bright person, but how many could have undertaken the task that Ray undertook in ripping the nonsense to shreds?  Whoa, the contradictions are so STUPID.  

Ray's right, it's a miracle that anyone could read this book and claim to be Christians and believe it hook, line and sinker, which gives credence to the scripture that not many wise, not many noble ... but God is choosing the foolish, the weak ...    I feel a righteous anger toward the filth in an opportunistic real estate agent like Bill Wiese, etc., who say that they feel more love and mercy as a nonChristian, than they do as a saved Christian.  But one would have to give up normal affections in order to be able to worship a "god" who creates grotesque monsters who never die, but live for eternity for the sole purpose of ripping the flesh off of human beings whose only sin was that they stole a pencil from their employer.  It's gross.  It's disgusting, and very few question it.  I was terrified of questioning it.  I never questioned my [im]pastors.

"God took it away that I was a Christian when I was in hell."  

What, God took it away?  Without Wiese's permission?  So much for free moral agency.

The part about him hitting the "ground" 3,700 miles below the surface of the earth was so stupid.  But I wouldn't have had the brains to notice that.  You know, thank God for Ray for having the emotional and mental capacity to critique this.  The sad thing is, even after we've been shown the truth, many times we don't know how to feel:  "Well, I used to be deceived, and I don't want to hate because that's a sin, but how do I feel?"  And we start flip flopping in our emotions because we're still afraid of upsetting God.  

There is such a thing as righteous anger.  And Bill is offending the "little ones," and I'm thinking of a millstone and the deepest part of the sea right about now - figuratively speaking, of course.

[octoberose]

Ray, you're a treasure. If I tired to write a paper such as this for the rest of my life I couldn't do it. God just hasn't gifted me that way. But when I read your words, and have my Bible open next to it, I know that He has gifted you. Thank you so much.

[jassy]

Ray, you're a treasure. If I tired to write a paper such as this for the rest of my life I couldn't do it. God just hasn't gifted me that way. But when I read your words, and have my Bible open next to it, I know that He has gifted you. Thank you so much.

Ditto to that.

I read the paper . And the next day went to visit my neighbours. An older couple, precious and very conservative. The husband stayed home on Sunday cause he cant hear at church anymore so he listened to the radio service. It was a full hell fire and brimstone fest.
He asked me what I believe, something he never does in this area. God never gave me a gift for words or explanation. I don't need it after Rays papers,
What you give ,Ray, is certainty. That belief shows through when I speak cause its not me, its all scriptural.

Of everything I have read penned by contemporary man, Bible truths has given me the most peace, the most illumination, the most joy. Ray allowed me to see the bible as it was meant to be seen, without the brainwashing.

[FrogGigger]

Far be it for me to cast dispersions at the very works of Yahweh's hands as He made us all with varying degrees of physical attractiveness according to His purpose, but that was one UGLY "preacher" that L.Ray placed at the top of his paper!  Which "evangelistic network" did L.Ray find him, I wonder?

Looks like the same preacher who sent me to hell in his fiery sermon when I was  "invited" as a guest to a church as a teenager!  During "alter call" he paced the aisle staring straight at me - I guess because I did not come forward! 

[lauriellen]

i have been sharing the link to Ray's new paper on my fb account.....and of course i have been getting 'roasted alive' (pardon the pun) .....i have said it before, i will say it again....i can't imagine why ANYONE would cling tooth & nail to such a dispicable disgusting belief as hell.....after praying for years 'please God don't let it be true"....what a relief it was to me to find out it wasn't true.....thank you God for opening my eyes....i only pray for those held captive by this evil teaching.....but it looks like they DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT!....=(
lauri

[Morten]

"what a relief it was to me to find out it wasn't true.....thank you God for opening my eyes"
And that's what everyone will say in the end, well maybe not litteral, but get the same feeling i quess  (unsaved). That's why it is a master plan from God. For what bigger relief is it to see, then to see that everyone get the same love (God is love ), and no evil

[daywalker]

Ironically, reading Ray's rebuttal makes me wanna read the book! I mean, it sounds so utterly ridiculous, yet entertaining at the same time! I can't help but laugh hysterically at some of the nonsense quotes from this guy's book! I gotta see them for myself! 

But in all seriousness, the sad part is that many people have purchased this book [making this fraudulent heretic rich!] and many of those who purchased and read it, actually believe it! Including Pastors and Theologians with college degrees!!! 


Personally, me thinks the demons in Bill's Hell have a higher IQ then he does... 

Daywalker 

[daywalker]

So these so-called near death experiences go against "god's word".  You cannot die, go to heaven or hell, and then come back to die a second time.  Maybe his next book will tell us about his experience in Hogwarts.


Wow, what a dreadfully-written piece of fiction.  Sounds like a high school freshman wrote it.


The only way I could believe a story like that is if it started with, "So I finally decided to try LSD and..."

Hahahaha... now that's funny!

[markn902]

Yay I just got my computer and internet back and I get to read a new paper! sweet 

[dogcombat]

Ironically, reading Ray's rebuttal makes me wanna read the book! I mean, it sounds so utterly ridiculous, yet entertaining at the same time! I can't help but laugh hysterically at some of the nonsense quotes from this guy's book! I gotta see them for myself!  Grin

But in all seriousness, the sad part is that many people have purchased this book [making this fraudulent heretic rich!] and many of those who purchased and read it, actually believe it! Including Pastors and Theologians with college degrees!!!  Cry

Actually dw, I don't think the folks actually read the book.  Like so many detractors who email Ray with their god AWFUL distortions of his papers.  When pressed they say the usual CYA stuff like  "well I glanced at",  "I skimmed over" but never actually R-E-A-D-I-N-G it.

Though Ray called this thing "the most poorly written, poorly researched, and the absolute worst scholarship that I have ever read."  He does a disservice to use the word scholarship, this farce doesn't even come close to being called such.  Having said that, we know that God's purpose is being fufilled with "books" like this, as Paul noted in Romans 1

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

O Father, I pray that you reveal more of your incorruptible truths to those  whom you have lead to read the truths about this fiction which you have blessed Brother Ray Smith  to present in spite of his own discomforts.  We learned more and more, that your Grace is sufficient to help him and ourselves endure.  May we learn to embrace our trials, sufferings, and fears, so that, by the presence of your son Jesus, we can overcome them.  Teach us to be merciful to those like Bill Weise, whom you have blinded.  For we were once blind to a lot of your truths such as this one.  In the name of Jesus the Christ I pray, Amen.

Ches

[arion]

Well, being firmly in the camp of the ET's for a number of years it's easy to understand why they buy into it and why the reject the universal salvation that Christ purchased on the cross for all his creation.  I was taught about hell as a young believer and then you read our english bibles that have the word 'hell' in it and Jesus said that people were going to go there it was pretty much a slam dunk to accept what we were taught.  It never occurred to most the contradiction of seeing in the scriptures that God IS love and that love NEVER fails and that Christ died for ALL and that he IS the savior of the world then to compare that with the teaching of eternal torture for temporal sins.  For myself I never understood the idea of 'hell' but I thought that God is perfect and whatever He does is right so if He created a hell and sends people there then it is right and who am I to question it?

But then in the fullness of times God uses people like Ray and a few others to properly exegete the words that are used in the scriptures that the theologians translated into 'hell' and how the hell teaching came from the old mystery religions originally and the church borrowed these despicable teachings on hell and crafted words in the New Testament to translate into hell, [mystery babylon the great indeed!!] then with the power of God to remove the scales from the eyes it all falls into place.  Now the scriptures make total sense to me, they harmonize one with another and don't contradict anymore.  One of the most powerful proofs for me is the teaching that scripture always interprets scripture....that we need at least two scriptural references for an interpretation...that no scripture is it's own interpretation.   (2 Peter 1:20)

The most frightening scripture in the whole bible is this one...

Rev 20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Of course it's demonstrably proven that almost everything in the book of revelation is symbolic and allegory yet the church teaches that this particular scripture is indeed literal but then they don't provide any other scriptural witnesses to properly explain it.  The only scripture that does explain it is this one.

1 Cor 11-15  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.   Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I share this for the benefit of any of our guests that may be reading this.  The churches never tell us or explain the above in reference to the scripture in revelation do they?  Our God IS a consuming fire.  The fire of God burns the mans work and not the man!!  The carnal and fleshy works of men are burned.  Once God turns on the powerful searchlight of his blinding truth in our lives the scales are removed and now we understand.  Oh, the sorrow that many will have in standing before their Lord on that day when they now understand how miserably they misrepresented him to a dying world.

[claypot]

I think Ray inferred that this work was a money making scam for the author and those involved and it sounds like it did do that successfully.

cp

[gmik]

Arion those are classic!!!

[daywalker]

THANK GOD FOR BILL WIESE, AND HIS BOOK "23 MINUTES IN HELL"!!!


....if it wasn't for him, and the dozens of emails that Ray received from proponents of his book urging him to read it, we may never have been blessed with such an

AWESOME REBUTTAL!!!



Daywalker 

[Ninny]

It amazes me that a person could write a book such as this, sell how many thousands of copies of it and probably make millions of dollars..and everyone thinks this is such a good book...THEN when we tell someone there is no hell and that it's just not there..and that God will save all...they call US crazy!! Suddenly we are hell bound..we are of the devil..we are evil!! WHAT???     if you tell someone that God is LOVE and that His plan is to save everyone and that he's no tyrant...we are shunned..BUT all you have to do is write a book about monsters and horrible torture by our "just" God..and you suddenly have all the credibility you need to sell all that idiotic puke??? Very frustrating!!    I'm glad that God (the REAL God) has all this under control!
Kathy

[GinaMilan]

THANK GOD FOR BILL WIESE, AND HIS BOOK "23 MINUTES IN HELL"!!!


....if it wasn't for him, and the dozens of emails that Ray received from proponents of his book urging him to read it, we may never have been blessed with such an

AWESOME REBUTTAL!!!



Daywalker 

I agree!

[GinaMilan]

It amazes me that a person could write a book such as this, sell how many thousands of copies of it and probably make millions of dollars..and everyone thinks this is such a good book...THEN when we tell someone there is no hell and that it's just not there..and that God will save all...they call US crazy!! Suddenly we are hell bound..we are of the devil..we are evil!! WHAT???     if you tell someone that God is LOVE and that His plan is to save everyone and that he's no tyrant...we are shunned..BUT all you have to do is write a book about monsters and horrible torture by our "just" God..and you suddenly have all the credibility you need to sell all that idiotic puke??? Very frustrating!!    I'm glad that God (the REAL God) has all this under control!
Kathy

It's very sad.

I was in a conversation with a young man who'd gone to Moody Bible Institute.  He was not stupid.  But he believes that God sends unrepentant sinners to "hell" if they die in their sins.  When I prodded him a little, he said to me that I was nuts to even hint that he wasn't bothered by the possible destiny of some of his family members.(!)  

He assured me he'd spent "hours" crying over their final destiny.  

I said, 'Merely "hours"'?  Hold on!  Let me get this straight.  You believe that your loved ones could likely end up spending eternity in some horrid "hell," and you've only managed to squeeze out a few sobs, by comparison?!  You mean to tell me you're still able to work and function normally, and eat three square meals a day?  Wow!  I don't think we're clear on what their possible final destiny is, according to you."

They really don't think about the doctrine (they can't).  

They're going the broad way to destruction and on their way:

1.  They're filtering out gnats:  "But you can't possibly be right -- I mean, you don't even go to church, and just look at how you're talking to me now; you're not being Christlike; to "hell" with you and your tone of voice!"

2.  Whilst gulping down the camel of eternal torment.   (And take your Lamb with you, darn it!)

If it wasn't so blasphemous, it'd be funny.

[claypot]

You sum it up so well GM. Very well. I'm going to send your post along to a friend or two if you don't mind,

cp

[GinaMilan]

God's will be done.