The Elect

[gohaley]

God rules this world from the spiritual realm. He oversees and has delegated principalities, powers, thrones, angels, etc to rule and do certain things in the spiritual realm which effect this physical world. (Aswell as communicating spiritually, angels do communicate physically with mankind on occasion)    

Question
When the elect rule with Christ, will they rule earth from the spiritual realm like the angels or physically rule here on earth like how earthly kings and presidents rule now? I say this because the elect will have spiritual, incorruptible bodies; not physical ones. Do these spiritual bodies simply enable the elect, immortality or is their more to it?  

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Do the elect remain with christ in the air ruling from a spiritual, heavenly perspective like how the spiritual realm is run now from 'heavenly places'? Or do the elect rule physically here on earth judging mankind and angels?

Help, Correction, Answers and Verses please!!!   

Just my mind going crazy again. If I'm bonkers, do let me know?!?

Love You Guys

Greg 

[mharrell08]

God rules this world from the spiritual realm. He oversees and has delegated principalities, powers, thrones, angels, etc to rule and do certain things in the spiritual realm which effect this physical world. (Aswell as communicating spiritually, angels do communicate physically with mankind on occasion)    

Question
When the elect rule with Christ, will they rule earth from the spiritual realm like the angels or physically rule here on earth like how earthly kings and presidents rule now? I say this because the elect will have spiritual, incorruptible bodies; not physical ones. Do these spiritual bodies simply enable the elect, immortality or is their more to it?  

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Do the elect remain with christ in the air ruling from a spiritual, heavenly perspective like how the spiritual realm is run now from 'heavenly places'? Or do the elect rule physically here on earth judging mankind and angels?

Help, Correction, Answers and Verses please!!!   

Just my mind going crazy again. If I'm bonkers, do let me know?!?

Love You Guys

Greg

Hello Greg,

The Lord does prophecy of teachers being seen:

Isa 30:19-20  For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem; You shall weep no more. He will be very gracious to you at the sound of your cry; When He hears it, He will answer you. And though the Lord gives you The bread of adversity and the water of affliction, Yet your teachers will not be moved into a corner anymore, But your eyes shall see your teachers.

But if you think about it, what difference would it make? I would believe the same result will happen whether people can see the Elect or not. Christ appeared to His apostles after the Resurrection and began their conversion. But He began our's by not appearing at all, only in our hearts. The results seem to be the same, either way I believe.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[gohaley]

Thanx for the clarity Marques

Your answer makes perfect sense.
I never thought of that   

[Dawidos]

I've got another question regarding The Elects. When you are a Elect, is it possible for you to sin no longer? Did Paul stop sinning at all since his conversion? Is it possible in this life (age or eon) to be perfect like Christ? Or is it beyond our reach? Of course I can imagine that God Elects don't take part in serious sins like adultery and murder, but what about other sins, let's call them "small one"?

[GinaMilan]

Dear David,

Please see "How Do I Stop Sinning":  http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11607.0.html

Gina

[mharrell08]

I've got another question regarding The Elects. When you are a Elect, is it possible for you to sin no longer? Did Paul stop sinning at all since his conversion? Is it possible in this life (age or eon) to be perfect like Christ? Or is it beyond our reach? Of course I can imagine that God Elects don't take part in serious sins like adultery and murder, but what about other sins, let's call them "small one"?

Hello Dawidos,

One is not God's Elect until the Resurrection. For now we just pursue the crown of righteousness that God has promised to those who overcome. It takes a lifetime to overcome...whatever your lifetime is.

No, Paul did not stop sinning after being converted on the road to Damascus. The Lord continued to give Paul the strength to overcome throughout his life, as a pattern to how He gives us strength to overcome [1 Tim 1:15-16].

Arion made a great comment to you in your introduction. You want to get away from the thinking that you need to be sinless...God doesn't expect you to be sinless in your life. What God does expect, from His Beloved Son, is for His Son to complete a work IN you. The faith is believing what God says HE is going to do, not what you need to do. God says He is doing a mighty work in His saints so we simply trust that He will complete it in us, either in this age or the next.

Another good read is the bible study 'Guilty of All'. While some sins will bring more stripes than others, we all are sinners alike. And we all are carnal to the point that if the same opportunity and circumstances were placed in our lives, we would have committed the same sins...small and great.


Hope this answers your questions,

Marques

[Dawidos]

Believe me, it does

[daywalker]

Believe me, it does

In addition to what Marques said, read Romans 7 [in particular the last half]

Daywalker 

[Morten]

 What a perfect link to give ginamilan

"One does not stop all his sinning just because he desires to stop.  I desired to stop, but I couldn't stop. When it was God's time in my life to really repent and stop sinning, then God brought that about"

say no more

[GinaMilan]

What a perfect link to give ginamilan

"One does not stop all his sinning just because he desires to stop.  I desired to stop, but I couldn't stop. When it was God's time in my life to really repent and stop sinning, then God brought that about"

say no more

[Dawidos]

I read everything you had recommended me to read Thank you.

I think I'm on this stage of my spiritual journey - when I desire to stop, but I can't stop, though there are sins I think I've already fought back. I hope so

[mharrell08]

I read everything you had recommended me to read Thank you.

I think I'm on this stage of my spiritual journey - when I desire to stop, but I can't stop, though there are sin I think I've already fought back. I hope so

Here are a few emails from Ray where he does a great job describing how we deal with sin, in our lives now. It sounds like God is working in you so sin does not have 'dominion' over you [Rom 6:14].

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6922.msg55173.html#msg55173):

My Web Master suggested I made an editorial note to my last reply to Jeremy's email on quitting sin. I was not suggesting that we becomes totally "sinless" when we become spiritually converted. The key is in the word I used to reference Romans chapter 6 in which it is stated that sin shall not have "DOMINION" over our lives. Now there is a different between consciously living sin free, and committing sins even when we consciously determine not to sin.  It is not humanly possible to live totally sin free. Notice Paul's words:

Phi 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Phi 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Phi 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

This letter was written years into Paul's ministry, and years after his bitter repentance, and YET, he states, "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect..." If Paul could admit to that, where oh where do you think most of us come in?  Yet we should all come to the place in our lives where "sin shall NOT have dominion over you." Hope this makes my previous statements a littler clearer.

God be with you,

Ray


Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,305.msg2643.html#msg2643):

When sin no longer "has dominion over you," you will know that God's Holy Spirit is operating in you. Not that you will not sin, but sin will not lord it over you; you will no longer be a slave to sin; you will not be fighting sin ever moment of your day; you will be given peace in that area of your life


Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4132.msg31572.html#msg31572):

We will sin as long as we are living in our flesh and bones and blood bodies. Yes, we must repent: "FORGIVE us our debts...." (Matt. 6:12).  We are to come to the place were sin "sin shall not have DOMINION over you"  (Rom. 6:14), but "if we say we have NO SIN, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is NOT IN US...if we say that we have NOT SINNED, we make HIM A LIAR, AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US"  (I John 1:8-10).

As you said about hope, it is good to hope & trust in the Lord, as He is faithful [1 Cor 1:9]. Keep the good fight of faith.


Marques

[daywalker]

I read everything you had recommended me to read Thank you.

I think I'm on this stage of my spiritual journey - when I desire to stop, but I can't stop, though there are sins I think I've already fought back. I hope so

A giant part of dying to the flesh, humbling thyself, and putting your trust solely in God is--learning that God only is in complete control, and that we have no control over anything, unless [until] He gives it to us... and it is therefore axiomatic that we fall, again and again, because this is how we come to understand these things.

Proverbs 24:16 for a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again; [RSV]

Notice what this verse does NOT say: It doesn't say 'the wicked man falls seven times, but the righteous man never falls'... Nope, it says the

"righteous man FALLS..."

If you never fell, then you could never fulfill this proverb [and the many similar scriptures]. You cannot "rise again", unless you first "Fall". Ironically, one major reason we get frustrated whenever we fall, is because of "pride". It's upsetting and damaging to the human ego when we desire to do something, but then we do the opposite.


It's a brutal lesson to be quite blunt, but a lesson that needs to be learned.

Daywalker 

[Dave in Tenn]

Notice what this verse does NOT say: It doesn't say 'the wicked man falls seven times, but the righteous man never falls'... Nope, it says the

"righteous man FALLS..."

If you never fell, then you could never fulfill this proverb [and the many similar scriptures]. You cannot "rise again", unless you first "Fall". Ironically, one major reason we get frustrated whenever we fall, is because of "pride". It's upsetting and damaging to the human ego when we desire to do something, but then we do the opposite.


It's a brutal lesson to be quite blunt, but a lesson that needs to be learned.

Daywalker 

And again, a very timely reminder for me.  Thanks, Daywalker and all.  Romans 7 returns to my mind often.

[judith collier]

As to Gohaley's initial topic, the Elect ruling in the spiritual or physical realm, don't flip out but i always saw it as now! Not saying I am an Elect. (didn't know about Elect and called till coming here) Please show me vs. because this was in the Spirit and I just knew my prayers were important at the time. Of course we can get things wrong even in the Spirit but it was so real.
Thanks, judy

[Kat]

Hi Judy,

Rev 19:11  Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
v. 12  His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
v. 13  He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
v. 14  And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
v. 15  Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
v. 16  And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
       KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

I believe this Scripture passage is in reference to Christ's return with the Elect/armies to rule/strike the nations. This has not happened yet, the Elect are not rulering in this world. Christ is back in heaven with the Father and there is another "ruler" in the world at this time.

John 14:28  You have heard Me say to you, "I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, "I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.
v. 29  "And now I have told you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe.
v. 30  I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.

There is now a ruler the prince of the power of the air... "who deceives the whole world" (Rev 12:9), except for the few called out of the world, the Elect that are being taught the truth.

Eph 2:1  And you He made alive, when you were dead through the trespasses and sins
v. 2  in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience.
v. 3  Among these we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of body and mind, and so we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
   
So at this time a place/kingdom is being prepared, and when Christ has all of His Elect prepared and ready He will return and "receive" them (dead and alive) into His kingdom.

Luke 19:12  Therefore He said: "A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return.

John 14:1  Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in Me.
v. 2  In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
v. 3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, so that where I am, you may be also.

Mat 25:31  "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
v. 32  All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
v. 33  And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
v. 34  Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[judith collier]

Thanks Kat, I remember now what took place (many yrs.ago)and want to talk with the other person first. The one who agreed with me but I want to have her show me the scripture first. Judy

[Dawidos]

I have another question. I know being an elect means that you know the Truth (not you stop sinning at all, because it's impossible in this lifetime), but how we should understand this Scripture?

For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries - (Heb. 10:26-27).

What is the "spiritual match" with this Scripture?

For the righteous falls seven times and rises again, but the wicked stumble in times of calamity - Proverbs 24:16.

Is "falling seven times" equal to "sinning willfully"?

[Kat]

Hi Dawidos,

Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
v. 27  but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

I think this is a good match.

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
v. 5  and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
v. 6  if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Thought this Scripture does say that there are those that do received/taste/hear the truth and can fall from this path. Even Paul thought he could "become disqualified."

1Co 9:27  But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

But do understand that if one falls away from the truth that was their destiny and they actually never were an Elect. Those that are the Elect of God will go through the necessary preparation and will endure to the end, God will see to it that they do. Those that are in His hand can not be lost.

John 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28  And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
v. 29  My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.

But God knows that as long as we are in the flesh we are still carnal and could not handle the knowledge that we are already saved. So we can not rest on our laurels, because there are those who will and do fall away from the truth, that is what the Scripture in Hebrews is warning of.
So God knows who are His, but He will not reveal this to His Elect... well maybe at the very end, like Paul knew at the time of his death.

2Tim 4:6  For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand.
v. 7  I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
v. 8  Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Dawidos]

Thanks, Kat. We can count on you any time. God, bless you