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Author Topic: A little Help  (Read 2152 times)

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Craig

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A little Help
« on: June 19, 2010, 08:26:13 AM »

Dear William:  I will make a few COMMENTS....in both your email and that of your friend:

Ray,
     
I could use a little help on the "OF"
which this scholar with degrees is refuting

Will the Messiah reign for ever and ever? 

COMMENT:  That depends on who or what you wish to believe--John Hagee, "And He shall reign or ever, and for ever, and forever...."  Or the King James translation errors--"...And He shall reign for ever and ever."  Or maybe your friend below--"and he-will-reign for the age the ages."

ALL three of which are totally wrong translations!  It should be translated:
"...and He shall reign for [literally 'to' or 'into'] the AGES of the AGES" (Emphatic Diaglot, with original Greek Text & Interlineary)

"...and He shall reign to the ages of the ages" (Interlinear Greek-English New Testament, By Jay P. Green, Sr.)

"...and He shall reign to the ages of the ages" (The Interlinear Literal Translation of The Greek New Testament By George Ricker Berry, Ph.D)

"...and He shall reign unto the ages of ages" (Rotherham's Emphasized Bible)

"...and He-will-be-reigning into the eons of-the eons" (Concordant Greek Text, Concordant Publishing Concern).

"...and He shall be reigning [Gk. aorist tense--indifinite] for [literally, 'into'] the eons of-the eonsj" (Concordant Literal New Testament).

So, then, will Jesus reign "for ever AND ever?'  For all eternity?  Let's believe the Scriptures, shall we?  How long will Jesus rule?  "Then comes the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.  For He must reign, TILL [till means 'UNTIL'] He has put all enemies under His feet....

And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, THEN shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all" Jesus assuredly does not rule or reign "for ever and for ever and for ever--all eternity."  He reigns ONLY 'UNTIL.  So who ya gonna believe?


     
Rev 11:15 - Christ will reign "for ever and ever" The Greek in Rev 11:15  is not "for ever ..AND.. ever,"  but "aions ..OF.. the aions."
Thanks
William


William,
I'm sorry to say that you are again incorrect.

 
COMMENT:  No, I'm afraid it is your friend who is "incorrect," William.
 
The passage is καὶ βασιλεύσει εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων.
 
Literally, it reads, "and he-will-reign for the age the ages,"
with the last part implying "for eternity."
 
COMMENT:  Wow. Five unscriptural errors in that 17 word statement.
Since "reign" is in the Greek aorist tense, it should read, "He shall be
reigning."
 
The 'for' is a good translation, however, since your friend wants to
talk "literally," well then literally, it should read "into" rather than "for."
 
You friend has the first age in the singular.  It is in the plural, "ages"
in all Greek manuscripts.
 
And the word "of" is likewise, assuredly, in the Greek text.
 
And NO, the last part does NOT "imply for eternity."  He made that up
!
 
While I agree with you that there is no and,
I cannot agree with you regarding of.
The Greek preposition
comes before the phrase and means for

Comparing phrase for phrase,
this is the exact same expression
as described of the lake of fire.
 
If you believe the lake of fire is only temporary,
then Christ's authority is also only temporary—
an absolute contradiction.
 
COMMENT:  No, this friend of yours is the contradictor, William. I just
showed you from the Scriptures that Jesus reigns "till--until" He turns
over His authority and rulership of the kingdom to His God and Father.

 
The phrase expresses eternity; there isn't any way around it,
no matter how much the Scriptures are twisted.

COMMENT:  It is only BY TWISTING the Scriptures and outright lying, that aions (ages) are turned into "eternities."  The noun "aion" does not change meaning when turned into an "adjective."  No adjective can take on a greater or totally different meaning than the nounh from which it is derived.  If one gets paid weekly, he would be highly upset if his employer paid him monthly--or how about getting paid at the end of "eternity?"


One final comment,
the phrase εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα was used in the LXX
to translate Gen. 6:3
indicating that God would not
contend (or abide) with man forever.
 
COMMENT:  Now he is going from one phrase in Greek to a totally
different phrase in Hebrew.  Give me a break. Let's read the rest
of that verse:  "...yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."
How does one get "forever" or "eternity" out of 120 years?

 
The KJV uses the word always,
and as you like to define words,
let's explore what always means.

Webster's American Dictionary
of the English Language (1828) reads:
"1. perpetually; throughout all time;
as God is always the same" (emphasis in orig.)
 
Perhaps that's not quite good enough.
 
How about perpetual, then?
"1. Never ceasing;
continuing forever in future time; destined to be eternal;
as a perpetual covenant; a perpetual statute.
[Literally true with respect to the decrees of the Supreme Being.]"

COMMENT:  Oh really?  "Always" means "throughout all time, perpetually, never ceasing, continuing forever in future time,  destined to be eternal?"
Let's see if that really works according to the SCRIPTURES:

Mat 26:11 "For ye have the poor always with you; but Me ye have not always." o the "poor" will be around for all eternity, but Jesus will not be around eternally?  Is that what your friend thinks this verse is saying?

Mar 5:5 "And always [for all eternity?] night and day, he was in the mountain..." So we are to believe he was in the mountain for ALL ETERNITY!

No, "always" does not always means "throughout all time, never ceasing, or eternity.


Hmmm.. Sounds pretty simple, unless you refuse to believe.

COMMENT:  We shall see who it is who is refusing to believe.
God be with you,
Ray (bible-truths.com)
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